Fornigate:

Who are the real villains in this story?

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Here are my two cents about the crisis:

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Other people's opinions...

My two cents are: Dubya. He'd be a minority president!
at last.
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:20:13 (EST)

My two cents are: I saw Stormin' Norman last night on Jeopardy. He didn't know shit about rock music.
Who'll Be the First to Offer Dubya Some Celebratory White Powder?
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:18:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Prez Dubya could be our boil-headed silver lining.
hapless days are here again
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:16:11 (EST)

My two cents are: Lott, Delay, and Armey may think that George's compassion is going to be a soft touch, but wait til they come up against the grizzled old pros from the Bush the First cabinet and the Gulf War brass-hat corps. Norman Schwartzkopf could out-bullshit these guys with one lip tied behind his back.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:12:48 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah, Mo, it's going to be neat. The little dude looks like he got swallowed by his cowboy hat down there on the ranch. This is going to be fun.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:07:51 (EST)

My two cents are: The capital has been much duller since the nasty Congressional Republicans faded into the background. It was so exhilarating when Newt Gingrich and his helmet-haired henchmen were shutting down the government, eliminating school lunches, cutting granny's Medicare, impeaching the president and mocking Barney Frank. We lost sight of Newt's successors, those vivacious valets of viciousness � Trent Lott, Tom Delay and Dick Armey � when the Bush campaign hid them in a lockbox. But now we are on the verge of welcoming these bully boys front and center again, as they resume ramming their conservative agenda down America's throat. The Hill Republicans have been secretly sniggering at their nominee's blarney, all that chuckleheaded stuff about compassionate conservatism and bridging-the-partisan-gap. Civility is not their preferred special interest. And they think it will be easy to maneuver the tyro W., whose schedule could well make Ronald Reagan's look grueling, to be even more generous to pharmaceutical companies, monopolies like Microsoft, big polluters and big businesses looking to limit lawsuits. In Bush 2, we'll get to see more of that shrinking violet, Clarence Thomas. As one of President W.'s favorite justices, and as someone touted by conservatives as a potential chief justice in a Bush regime, he will come into his own. Perhaps the Anita Hill episode won't be the thing Justice Thomas is remembered for; perhaps overturning Roe v. Wade will. And it will be so reassuring to have Charlton Heston packing heat � trigger treat! � doing glam drop-bys at D.C. restaurants and dinner parties, once the N.R.A. opens up that office in the Bush White House it's been bragging about. I'm breathless with anticipation. How about you?
Mo' Mo
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:05:01 (EST)

My two cents are: It means "surrounded by his father's handlers" in Serbo-Croatian.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:04:56 (EST)

My two cents are: Listen, you delinquent assholes. I was Maureen Dowd's husband and she is a great gal with a sunny disposition who just can't satand frauds like the Bushes. Gentility,my ass. They are scum ,a pack of lying ,thieving curs who have never done a lick of work on their own. Scabs and skunks.
Michael Dowd
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 13:04:21 (EST)

My two cents are: Say, just what kind of name is "Bush," anyhow?
Pushkin Bushinsky
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:56:50 (EST)

My two cents are: You stop picking on 'Toine, you WASP termagant! 'Toine very properly criticized Miss Dowd's column, not by idea-bashing, like you socailsits, but solely on the basis of her marital status and presumed ethnicity! So there!
TAKE THAT YOU WASP SWINE
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:54:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Maureen Dowd was good when she was being catty about Monica. Since then she's got a little too far back in her pig-Irish roots for my taste, saying nasty things about the Bush family, an old Irish trick. The mick and the Jew just can't stand having a white man in office, any more than the shine or the guinea.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:45:32 (EST)

My two cents are: Yes, it's sooo true! Since Miss Dowd is an unmarried Republican, that makes her LONG to lash out cruelly at Kennebunkport's finest!
Pubbie Spinsters Suck
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:37:38 (EST)

My two cents are: Next he'll call Maureen a dirty Mick.
HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE OUR PROUD SCION
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:34:50 (EST)

My two cents are: you plagiarizing again, 11:22? who from?
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:32:39 (EST)

My two cents are: Even Republican gals know Bush Lite has boils for brains.
Mo Dowd--Proud Republican
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:24:34 (EST)

My two cents are: Maureen Dowd is Republican.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:22:53 (EST)

My two cents are: Maureen Dowd, who wields the most poisonous pen in Gotham, can't get enough of bashing everybody named Bush: "The Bush monopoly, after all, has operated in the interregnum with the same arrogant philosophy as the Microsoft monopoly: You can have all the choice you want � as long as you choose us." Poor Mo. The embittered Irish spinster, ever dreaming of cold, gray Easter morns and exploding British post offices, proving you can take the girl out of the shanty, even reward her with a column in the New York Times, but you can't get the shanty out of the girl. The Gores are just as WASP as the Bushes, but the Bushes spring from New England gentility and the Gores from the Baptist good ol' boy culture of the rural South, making the Bushes more like the English she was taught to resent and rage against. Mo learns nothing, forgets nothing, and hates everything that hints of Anglo-Saxon. George W. never would have taken her home to meet the folks, but look who gets to throw the ink bomb.
Bush Family - "new E-ngland gentility" <soggy leaf rakers excluded>
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 11:22:59 (EST)

My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Sore Gore
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 11:18:58 (EST)

My two cents are: Last week's Pats game was almost unwatchable. Jets, too. Going to have to find something else to do on Sundays. The thought of three hours' worth of leaf-raking doesn't thrill, however.
E
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 11:09:29 (EST)

My two cents are: Mistrust in the Trust BY MAUREEN DOWD - WASHINGTON � Finally, Al Gore got wise. He has called in America's leading trust-buster. He has stopped treating W. as a hapless daddy's boy and started treating him as the face of the ruthless Bush family cartel. The latest addition to the Gore legal armada is David Boies, the cunning litigator who beat Microsoft to a pulp in court and showed it to be a monopoly that unfairly stifled the competition. Mr. Boies, whose knit ties and Macy's suits belie the fact that he is a killer from Wall Street, showed up in Tallahassee yesterday declaring that the judge's decision that seemed to be a Gore defeat was really a Gore victory. If the Democrats' Perry Mason could turn Bill Gates into a stumbling incompetent in a deposition, I shudder to think what he could do with W. The New York lawyer (whose firm is also taking on price-fixing in the art world cartel of Sotheby's and Christie's) is making the same argument about Florida voters that he once made about computer customers: They have a right to choose their products freely. "The voters have spoken and the votes ought to be counted," Mr. Boies said last night. W. campaigned on the issue of restoring trust. But it turns out he meant restoring the Family Trust. The Bush monopoly, after all, has operated in the interregnum with the same arrogant philosophy as the Microsoft monopoly: You can have all the choice you want � as long as you choose us. When questioned by Mr. Boies about stifling fair competition, Mr. Gates would get petulant. W. is just the same. The Bush family's elitist mantra � "We were born to rule. We know best. Leave it to us." � was echoed at Microsoft. Both monopolies simply assumed that Americans should want what they were selling. Anybody who disagreed shouldn't count � or get counted. Ever since the vice president refused to withdraw from the marketplace, W. has snippily comported himself as president-elect. W. keeps acting as though he needs to get busy with a transition, even though all he's doing is giving jobs to all the old Bush family retainers and tiresome former Bush White House officials who are already sitting around the ranch with him. How much time and imagination does that take? The Bushes are treating Florida as possessively as Microsoft treated the rest of the computer industry. Jeb Bush runs the Florida subsidiary of Bush Inc. and was supposed to roll over Mr. Gore the way Microsoft rolled over rivals in the browser war. But once Jeb failed to achieve market dominance in his region, it fell to his subordinate, Katherine Harris, Florida's secretary of state, to use her "discretion" to muscle out the interlopers. She knows that if she succeeds, there might be a big bonus from Bush Inc.: a cushy job as an ambassador or perhaps support for a Senate run. James Baker's strong-arm tactics are reminiscent of those Microsoft executives who acted like thuggish enforcers of their leader's will, warning that their company was so important that any kind of assault on them would be bound to undermine the stability of the Republic and destroy capitalism and impede the march toward high-tech prosperity. Mr. Baker held a press conference yesterday morning to warn of dire consequences if W. was not immediately installed in the executive suite. But just as the Bush Inc. not-so- Velvet Hammer was pompously lecturing about international uncertainty and "disturbed" markets, the Nasdaq and Dow indexes were sharply rising, running across the bottom of the TV screen, mocking his words even as he uttered them. Mr. Baker keeps acting as though there's some phantom populace impatiently demanding a swift resolution. That's simply not true. W., of course, is eager to slide by with the help of family connections, and start inaugural partying. But the rest of us are perfectly content to wait for the arithmetical truth. (And not Mr. Gore's selective truth either, cleaving to Democratic counties.) It is not the tie, but the grating behavior of the contenders in the tie, that is trying American patience. At least there's this to be grateful for: Johnnie Cochran hasn't shown up on the Gore legal team. (If the chads don't fit, you must acquit.)
the face of the ruthless Bush family cartel
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 11:07:03 (EST)

My two cents are: Mee The Press is just coming on and I want to see it. Later guys. Hi E, hope the Pats finally win one today. JETS, Well....,John�
J
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 11:01:59 (EST)

My two cents are: Hi, John. Funny how Bush wouldn't go for a recount of the whole state. What's Junior scared of? Besides his own shadow.
E
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 10:54:56 (EST)

My two cents are: Sun morning two weeks ag.gore just isn't picking up enough votes. So much for cheating and all the other crap republicans are bitching about. Lets have more hanging chads. If Dems are cheating they're doing a lousy job of it............John�
J
- Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 10:21:31 (EST)

My two cents are: its a problem for military men to have their votes thrown out but we support having little old jewish voters votes thrown out. plus lots of black votes thrown out is prerfectly legal. any american can understand the differnce. we onlie defend bush voters. which is our rule of law.
republican voters only need apply
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 22:30:45 (EST)

My two cents are: Look good for Gore? You bet it looks good for Gore. That's why the Bushies were so dead set on trying to get the election "called" soonest, and having their party shoes on soonest. Too bad for them that their little plan screwed up.
sorry charlies
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 22:27:33 (EST)

My two cents are: Ich habe nicht chads, nicht, nicht, nicht.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 21:59:31 (EST)

My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 18:47:44 (EST)

My two cents are: Had some deer out back the other day gnat. first time in awhile. Thought they had been shot. the doe and her two yearlings were there but my damn beagle saw them and started howling and scared them.//// Still waiting for the dem response to that diatribe...........John�
J
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 17:32:41 (EST)

My two cents are: Was waiting for the Montana governor to say they were making paper airplanes out of the ballots.
gnat
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 16:44:48 (EST)

My two cents are: I can't believe these republicans. They manufacture more BS than Gillette does blades. God!! What liars. They can turn a piece of loose chad falling out of its spot on the ballot into a national crisis. Robbing votes from overseas with their own people watching the godamn count. Strictly BS. They must know something about this count the rest of us don't and it must look good for Gore...........John�
J
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 16:33:42 (EST)

My two cents are: There's a den? With Don Quixote paintings? Cute little clams in the store, got them, no parsley no white wine no lemon, just clams, butter already. Try to see if the gut wrenching last time was clam aversion or just chance. Heard some lame Republican going on about the man defending liberty in the mountains or the desert or the jungle must not have a deadline on his vote, rather weird, a scoundrel wrapping himself in the flag in platitudes fifty-seven, fifty, thirty years out of phase. The right-wingers are coming unglued about this all around town, we may be looking at a bi-modal distribution but the mode over on the right is huge, growing minute by minute like a furuncle expanding its necrotic core, that chunk of coagulated pus and half-digested diseased tissue. One of the two standard troglodytes on the MacLaughlin food fight, the one who is in to tax cut revenues and the stock market, appeared to be drunk, but maybe it was just too much emotion welled up inside. I think the high emotion makes it easier to believe that somebody is secretly poking chads for Gore in the recount rooms, these fellows honk and snort derisively again and again about the 78 chads on the floor, as if they meant something, as if they were the golden plates, the Word from the archangel bringing news of whatever twisted plot they are supposed to evidence. Hope that Bush finally ekes out a win, and we get to see him pretending to try to bring this tub of troglodytic shit into some sort of civil entity.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:57:08 (EST)

My two cents are: .....being denied
gnat
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:45:18 (EST)

My two cents are: Hi John. What did you think of his charge that the military man is being his due right to vote?//Beautiful fall day here. Picked my first navel orange, sooo good.
gnat
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:39:38 (EST)

My two cents are: I listened to him gnat,he is still on, in fact. It is the biggest crock I have heard yet from the republicans. I just hope the democrats are allowedime to rebut this BS.............John�
J
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:29:40 (EST)

My two cents are: Governor of Montana is out in full force. His objective is to discredit the entire recounting process.
gnat
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:26:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Just got back from errands in the rain. stuff for beef stew, queso fixins and chips, brownie mix and a 1.4 gallon keg of beer, cute little thing Warsteiner. Today is clean up the den day, mount some shelves for the stereo, rearrange my collection of don quixote paintings.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:09:58 (EST)

My two cents are: So how do you know how many minutes glint, or is it just so dark you can leave it open forever?
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 15:07:30 (EST)

My two cents are: I think a drunk republican might have pissed on those ballots. The Weed has got votes in the recount in Palm Beach county, more than Gore has.........John�
J
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 14:57:32 (EST)

My two cents are: Wet ballot refers to the voter was drunk and therefore disqualified. There was an actual war called the Red Stick War. Made Andrew Jackson famous.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 14:53:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Lot of lawyer bounty in Florida counties.
gnat
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 14:07:49 (EST)

My two cents are: Back to the political fray??? 926, doubt if thay can get that many in a recount. Now there is a war about Harris again as she has put out a memo that directly contradicts a state law. Seems a lot of overseas ballots have been thrown out because of no date stamped, no signature , wet ballots,(how did they get wet?) Some of these are Gore ballots so don't think they are all The WEEDS. I know Gore has at least a hundred votes that aren't counted yet but thats a long way to go. ........John�
J
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 13:40:41 (EST)

My two cents are: Yes, Red Stick, that's the savage dude. They might have cleaned it up some, but they kept in several strings of PC-less adjectives Fess spouted off to Red Stick. I wonder how he got the name. Was there a love scene that got cleaned up for D's wonderful world of color?
Glint
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 13:39:36 (EST)

My two cents are: In the dark the shortwave provides time signals courtesy of NIST. Just wind, lock the shutter open, remove the lens cap, count the minutes, put the cap back on and close the shutter. Can do it in the dark with one hand tied behind my back.
Glint
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 13:31:10 (EST)

My two cents are: Well out to run some errands. some pipe tobacco, speaker jacks maybe, and the new richard and linda thompson remastered fairport convention cd.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 13:01:38 (EST)

My two cents are: Sounds like the three episodes of Davy Crockett that came out as the first Frontierland installment of Disneyland in about 1956. That double-war-club Indian was named Red Stick, chief of the Creeks in the shows. First installment starts out Davy grinnin' the bear? Since 1956 they cleaned it up, took out what might be considered too harsh-- for example when the Tennesseeans attack the Indian village there was a part where various coonskinned fellows would sneak up on Creek sentries and gut them from behind with a Bowie knife. Then there were the scenes when they're amongst the teepees killing off the redskins, no women or children shown, where Davy leads a running injun like a duck and brings him down with one shot from Old Betsy. They cleaned it all up about the time the Indians occupied Alcatraz.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 13:01:10 (EST)

My two cents are: So what do you do glint? guess, count, in the dark on B
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:52:27 (EST)

My two cents are: Oh, so you were calling me a canary canine? some sort of cross between a bird and a dog?? My mistake, I thought you were using "canary canine" as a substitute for yellow and dog. you see, if you are using canary as an adjective like the color yellow, or a substitute for it, adjectives modify nouns you may recall, then it works out ok, assuming of course your reader , from context, can infer you are using canary as an adjective and not as a noun. Appears now you were not. Anyway, I'm growing tired of wiping the floor with you. Study your own mistakes, frankly they bore me.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:42:19 (EST)

My two cents are: Fox reports unofficial tally after counting absentees Bush leads by 926. Now, we need to divine the intent of the voters whose absentee ballots were disputed. :-)
Glint
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:40:03 (EST)

My two cents are: Don't need no light meter on "B" setting. Did have a small red penlight for reading the short wave radio dial, though. In fact the light meter on that particular FTb I believe is broken.
Glint
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:36:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Colophon
clue
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:33:53 (EST)

My two cents are: coincedentally, counting "canary" can't compare coherently cause canary constitutes classifying cases contained cumulatively in "animal".
consider clobbered canine chiefly clubbed
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:30:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Glint, what do you do about not being able to read the light meter in the ftb?
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:21:18 (EST)

My two cents are: coincedentally, counting "canary" can't compare coherently cause canary constitutes classifying cases contained cumulatively in "yellow".
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:19:15 (EST)

My two cents are: Good morning, Ydog. Slept in this morning. Went out and observed the Leonids between about 2-4 a.m. EST under a 3rd quarter Moon. Took two old ourdoor furniture cusions, a short wave radio, and a tripod-mounted FTb (with 800 ASA film) up to the top of the hill. Counted 138 during 107 minutes of observing time. One prediction put the peak at 2:45 and another at 2:50. Counted 19 between 2:40 and 2:50 and 18 during the next 10 minutes. Took a few time exposures trying to get lucky by catching a meteor trail or two. Some were pretty bright; one flashed like a camera strobe at the end of the trail.Around 4 a.m. the rate was back down around one per minute. By that time I was feeling the cold through the sweat clothes and the insulated Walls coveralls. The feet were the coldest because I was wearing uninsulated rubber boots and only one pair of Rebok "flexies". No holes though. <> Speaking of trails, when I came back in to warm up I flipped on the fire and the T.V. and one of the old Davey Crockets was on the set. Fess Parker's side kick was Buddy Ebson. Poor Buddy caught an Indian axe between the shoulder blades, but a couple of scenes later he was up and around. They were working around some swamp where gaters and rattle snakes cohabitated. Crocket was watching the gaters diving into the swamp but that didn't stop him from wading across and getting attacked by one. In the end he fought the Indian chief in a hand-to-hand tomohawk/war club (one in each hand) battle. The chief, being a crooked Indian, cheated of course with the help of a brave that looked like a younger version of Highmaster Daley who slipped him an axe. Guess who won?
Glint
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:13:38 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, I'm off for a week, no pothaole until the 27th.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 12:03:55 (EST)

My two cents are: hey, whose job was it to reboot cron job 'E' this morning?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:52:36 (EST)

My two cents are: Truthfully, it was a moment of dullness here. I don't usually bother to address toine at all. like most, I see the typing in the address line and scroll. Perhaps it was cruel, unfair, sort of like shortchanging the blind. Anyway, I was bored and it was something to do.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:51:40 (EST)

My two cents are: I don't think I said I was proud of eating toine's lunch. I'm just continuing whacking him around because he's so upset. Screaming on the playground as it were.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:48:15 (EST)

My two cents are: I think what you may be confusing with pridefulness is the fact that I consider this poster to be so stupid I felt a need to hit him over the head with it. That aspect wasn't directed at anyone but the moron mind that found "dungpool divin doggie" intellectually amusing and flattered himself with it enough to deem it worthy of posting. Apparently he now comprehends.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:44:41 (EST)

My two cents are: Pride in eating Toine's lunch, however, is outside the bubble.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:40:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Pride, however, is permissible, prejected sporadically and in moderation overall.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:39:47 (EST)

My two cents are: Face it toine, I ate your fucking lunch.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:38:42 (EST)

My two cents are: I agree with canary canine colin. There was a certain pridefulness in the posts.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:37:33 (EST)

My two cents are: convergent evolution seems to be the ticket, nice work.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:36:42 (EST)

My two cents are: "I got a hole in one of my 9 dollar backpacking socks. They are special socks crynic, made of several fabrics and layered. There's a nylon heel and toe outershell to prevent premature wear at stress points."
rube consumer born one minute before and a minute after a couple other rubes
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:35:23 (EST)

My two cents are: glad you enjoyed it. guess I have a laughing stalk up my colin.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:34:14 (EST)

My two cents are: Depends on where. It was convergent evolution starting from adjustements to disparate environments. In Japan, the shoe evolved from the clog, which was initially a means of protecting socks worn inside paper houses. In Finland, the shoe evolved from the ski-boot, which was a necessary interface between the ski and the foot, and the sock appeared as secondary interface. In the court of Versailles, the sock evolved from the tight hose, which were in fact hoses open at each end, developed to show a duke's shapely leg to advantage, and was later extended down into the shoe as a means of holding it in place. Deviations developed in the hostile fringes of man's domain, where dwealt inferior peoples-- for instance the Eskimo's mukluk is both sock and shoe at once, demonstrating a reductive unimaginative snow-blindness, man almost overcome by the corner into which he has been pushed by civilizations capable of developing a system of independent shoes and hosiery. In the sunny south, where there was nothing to rasp and grind humanity into its potential inventiveness, neither shoe nor sock developed, nor did there arize a Mozart or an Elias Howe, or a Locke, or an Einstein.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:32:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Bateson's issue was that he rejected Kant's apriori but also levi-strauss' structuralism and its parallels in Freud and Jung in a search for whatever it is that aesthetics are born from, how beauty comes to be. A difficult place to be, but a good question to start with. Trancing seems like it might play here but it dosen't explain the rubbled beauty of the parthenon or a hood ornament fashioned after the nike of samonthrace.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:31:56 (EST)

My two cents are: I picked several different letters to riff on, just for kicks ... I ... some chickenshit moron ....So i did it what, two or three times with different ...motherfucker....I'm a hot shit, ... stupid sack of shit.... Stupid fucking ydog... sorry wipe ... between my posts (i.e. rear legs)....
canary canine colin
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:25:29 (EST)

My two cents are: One has to wonder what Claude Levi-Strauss would have made of socks. In part I suppose it would drag him back to Malinowskis functionalism, which is where I suppose Glint would fall - a sock being a sock as it says in the washington times. Bateson wore no socks.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:24:16 (EST)

My two cents are: Once went to live in a foreign city in the era when a lot of American wore drugstore cowboy boots, and my black Acme's wearing out I procured a pair of indifferent brown Justins at the Jew surplus store on Market Street. Walked all over that city, which was in the shape of a human heart and about 7 kilometers across, until one late-fall night walking from up in the north clear to my place on the south edge a stealth nail in the Justins finally drilled clean through sock and heel callus and and into the sensitive flesh above. Boots were all wrong for fitting into a city where you could tell a man's home water by looking at his footgear, whether it was Arabia or Indonesia or Amarillo, so in a month or two I saved enough to procure a pair of black buckled winkle-pickers at BATA that didn't know what a nail was, and had the ambiguous thin linoleum sole characteristic of shoes outside the United States. We live and learn empirically, like puppies chewing socks, no matter what the grand philosophers say or who has the fanciest gutters.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:21:37 (EST)

My two cents are: As a historical inquiry did the sock preceed the shoe or the shoe the sock? Was it necessary for them to co-evolve? I mean lets take some guy who invents the first shoe and it scrapes all hell out of his foot. Is the sock an afterthought? a retrofit? or perhaps after wearing out millions of socks, people invented shoes to protect them?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:18:10 (EST)

My two cents are: Maybe you're confusing the sock with one of those Jungian archetypes. Snake, maybe.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:13:14 (EST)

My two cents are: Now for Pete, the sock is of course Clinton's penis.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:12:10 (EST)

My two cents are: In truth, I am wearing said sock at the moment. The hole is (I mean appears to be - no that's still not right, fuck it) anyway about the size of four chads which are square and not round so by the way with these ballots, why do we try to punch out the square chad with the round stylus? Something empirically wrong here.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:10:36 (EST)

My two cents are: You see, one of the problems I have with the ovit model is that it can't really handle a sock. Of course you could try and place it in the order dimension, as of being ordered and composed of an arrangement of fibers, but this does nothing to address the concept of sockness as proposed either by kant or Veber. Some philosophical model, the ovit box. Can't even handle the concept of a fucking sock. Try bringing up the hole and you can see the whole ovit model just crumbles like the house of cards it is.
thefool
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:07:40 (EST)

My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:05:13 (EST)

My two cents are: Ultimately I would have preferred my traditionalist approach to hiking socks, which is a thin white cotton sock covered with a rag wool sock. Always seem to blow the heels out of the rag socks though. Maybe because my old boots had a nail sticking up in the heel. Used to pound it flat with an iron bar and a 3 pound sledge but it kept poking back up.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 11:03:03 (EST)

My two cents are: I guess it all depends where on the ovit continuum one places a "sock". If, as I suspect, a sock would indeed cast a shadow on the wall of a cave, then we have not an answer, but obly more questions. Is there for instance an "apriori sock" - some deep and mystic essence of sockness devoid of shape or form but extant in the universe or even before? Conversely, is it not an apriori notion of "sock" which probably wouldn't throw a shadow, but maybe one of Max Weber's "ideal types" of sockness, again something which may exist in our mentalities but again can't throw a shadow on the wall? Differing here from Kant in that this sockness although it dosen't exist is a product of man.
thefool
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 10:59:33 (EST)

My two cents are: well, its called candycane mane because of the way the guy getts wrapped up in the bloody gauze I think, but also to give it a christmas title.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 10:54:08 (EST)

My two cents are: Just asking.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 10:46:03 (EST)

My two cents are: So, why is it called candycane man and not crank-case man?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 10:45:25 (EST)

My two cents are: The problem with the notsock appears to be the "moonshot" mentality with which it was designed. Too many things to go wrong, no puppy required, no doornail. Cobbled together, if that may be said of a sock, of disparate materials desparately trying to make it into something that it is not. Lycra band over the arch may be the fatal flaw, like the rubber O-rings in the Morton Thiokol rocket that becomes brittle at low temperatures. A sock like that might cast a jumbled patchwork of a shadow on the cave wall, its blended essences fighting to project their ideal forms, and not the form in the mind of the over-imaginative engineer who designed it. And next to it, a humble Navy sock, casting the hard-edged pure true shadow of Sockness.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 10:43:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Morning yall cold and raining all day here, in the low 40's. Been working on editing candycane man again so we have a christmas story for fornigate.
ydog
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 10:41:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Off to Walmart. Later...........John�
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 09:39:15 (EST)

My two cents are: After I retired from the Navy I had so many socks(prs) that I was still wearing them over 20 years later. Still havre some but they are in the looses sock drawer. Socks you wash and end up with one instead of a pair. The great washing machine caper./// This morning with 1 precinct to count the lead by the Weed is 927 with lots of bitching about discarded ballots, but the law is clear, they MUST be postmarked by midnight the day of the election and signed. Have no idea how many Gore has in the recount but don't think its that many. Hi YD, All...........John�
J
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 08:52:59 (EST)

My two cents are: About twenty years ago I worked as a production assistant for sears advertising regional headquarters in D.C. We produced things called "flexies", those 5-20 page ad inserts that come in the newspaper. Two a week. Did all kinds of layout, paste-up and copy editing. We had an item then, it was called the "sailors knit sock". Was made of nylon I think but woven so as to be sort of fluffy and not slick. I later learned it was taken off the market because it didn't wear out.
thefool
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 07:49:59 (EST)

My two cents are: The hole in the sock is really sort of a mystery. its on the top of the foot, not heel or toe, and slightly down to one side in front of the outside of the ankle about an inch. about twice the size of of a chad actually. I have theorized at some length regarding its appearance, which I meant to say not its appearance in the way it looks, but appearance in the way it came into being which I have now decided are really the same thing so in pondering its appearance I am now faced with the conundrum that it is something that isn't, being a hole that is. For by being a hole, what it is, is actually a place where there is no sock. So what is there (or as we see now what isn't there) is actually "not sock". And we all should know by now that "not sock" simply will not cast a shadow on the cave wall. One theory about the appearance of "no sock" (and damnit that still dosen't capture it) is the puppy, having great love of socks as toys played a role. Another is one of the doorsill plates that had pulled loose before replaced it stuck up quite high with a few nails as I padded around shoeless - which I am now forced to note is not the same as being "no shoe" because unlike the hole, the shoe you see can he somewhere else and still throws a shadow you can see. Even checked the inside of the speedlace grommets on the boots to make sure there wasn't a rough or defective one but they were fine. In anycase, this all sort of winds back around to the fact that there is a hole in my sock, or at least that "there is a hole in my sock" is something you can say, point being that it depends on exactly what the meaning of "is" is.
thefool
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 07:43:53 (EST)

My two cents are: It was gracious of suave, sophisticated, well-spoken Mr. Crynic to fall by today. You've got to respect a man who votes for a clueless airhead for president and frets solemly about the state of the maritime industry. Those sound like pretty good socks, yellow dog, if a little complicated. Best socks I ever had, and still have after fifteen years, is called the Swiss Army sock, and may still be available, although I am cognizant of your animadversion to the Swiss Army. About twenty bucks a pair, used to get them as presents back in the day. One good test of a sock is whether it gets holes in it. Never done any real two-week backpacking, but I have walked every day going on two weeks, carrying loads on my back, and the Swiss socks stood up to it.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:29:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Gosh this is a fast-moving story, and it doesn't seem to be a story about system error the way Pete so insightfully said it was. He did say that, didn't he, end of story and all? It was just skimmable as usual, even with the Breightly two thumbs up.... This seems to be more a story about whether the excuses were any good, whether it's OK to turn in votes late because there are so many of them you couldn't count them all in the available time, or do you have to have a hurricaine or a nuclear plant goes out and the lights don't work. To be fair to Pete, maybe that's what system error is if you stretch it far enough. Maybe his analysis isn't abysmally stupid. Maybe it is.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 18, 2000 at 00:14:41 (EST)

My two cents are: Thank you for taking action through ActForChange.com to demand a clean >Presidential election. Please keep reading to see what more you can do. > >So far, you have joined with other concerned citizens to send more than >200,000 e-mails through this website to Florida election officials, >Governor >George W. Bush, and other campaign officials. This is an unprecedented >outpouring and it is continuing. This e-mail campaign has been covered by >the New York Times, USA Today, and many other mainstream outlets. > >Please forward this e-mail on to any friend or associate who you believe >might want to join the campaign. > >But more work is needed. The media is portraying the current situation as a >conflict of dueling lawsuits, but election officials and the Bush campaign >are making daily decisions that will affect whether the will of the voters >is accurately reflected in the vote totals - or manipulated and ignored. > >We have set up a toll free telephone number - the Election Integrity >Hotline >at 1-888-38-STANDUP (1-888-387-8263) - that you can call 24 hours a day, >hear a background message and then be connected to a critical >decision-maker >to express your opinion. Right now we are targeting Florida Secretary of >State Katherine Harris, urging her to accept hand counted ballot totals >from >contested counties. > >In addition, ActForChange.com currently has two e-mail actions that deserve >your attention. We know that you have already taken action, but please know >that we are constantly updating the content and targets to achieve the >greatest possible impact. Please check back often for updates. > >Secretary of State Katherine Harris and Florida Election Officials: Ensure >Integrity of Presidential Vote >http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=9237 > > >Governor George W. Bush: Support a Fair and Accurate Election >http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/action.cfm?ItemId=9312
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 23:31:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Junior Bush Lite's Younger Brother.
Runnin' Scared 2
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 23:24:24 (EST)

My two cents are: Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:57:16 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Thank you for your e-mail to Governor Bush. The Governor appreciates hearing from concerned citizens. If you are writing about the recent election, your best source of information is Florida's Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, or the Supervisor of Elections in the county where you have concerns. To avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest, Governor Bush has recused himself from the Election Canvassing Commission, which will ultimately certify final returns. He appreciates your interest in our election process and is confident that it will be handled with integrity. If you are writing about a matter other than the election, the Governor's staff will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible. Thank you again for writing.
The Governor Fears He Won't Be Re-Elected thanks a lot George
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 23:23:06 (EST)

My two cents are: Bush Lite. Runnin' scared. 'Night.
E
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 23:15:11 (EST)

My two cents are: yeah ydog, the voting machines should be impounded and checked. A little snipsnip with the wire cutters and Poof! - 10K+ underpunched ballots in Dem precincts.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 22:13:56 (EST)

My two cents are: Gnat, as far as the Bush family is concerned, Jeb is probably the "good son". Didn't loot the savings and loans, kept a low profile as a drunken idiot fratboy to his twenties and didn't let it becme an issue that he still hadn;t matured by age 40. Of course Jeb did marry a little chiquita that could suck the chrome off a trailer hitch, but that's a "family" issue, something apart from the giant insurance and militiary industrial fnancial christmas brawls they enjoy. Nite all.
ydog.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:53:41 (EST)

My two cents are: They are special socks crynic, made of several fabrics and layered. There's a nylon heel and toe outershell to prevent premature wear at stress points. Then, there's a sort of lycra band across the arch to keep them from slipping down in the boot. Also come in three grades of sole padding to adjust for foot width versus bootmakers width so the foot dosen't slop around too much. Cotton wool blend to wick sweat away from the foot but absorb the moisture to prevent boot and foot rotting from excess moisture. Also, the toes, where that ridge of stitching usually is across the top is completely flat and sewn parallel to the body of the sock instead of bunched up as a seam. If you'd ever done any real two-week backpacking, you Might understand. It wansn't the cost of the socks crynic, like I thought that made my genitals swell or something, it was seing something that was built more or less right.
ydog
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:41:42 (EST)

My two cents are: Hi crynic, if it makes you feel any better, I got a hole in one of my 9 dollar backpacking socks. Maybe that proves bush will win the election, send him an email. write an open letter.
ydog
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:14:44 (EST)

My two cents are: Evidently enunciating expressions engendered and entirely engineered expressly to exacerbate envy and enrage egos evinces exposition of extremely elementary and effluent enhanced exasperation. Eat ego.
ydog
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 21:09:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Saw your little quip about the thesaurus anon. And I'll admit that I thought one might be useful in riffing on the letters of the alpahabet. But since you brought it up, no, motherfucker, not a thesaurus. ydog, straight out of the can. and in case you were too fucking stoopid to notice, I picked several different letters to riff on, just for kicks you buttwipe, in essence to be able to say that dungpool diving doggie (the key being "d") was something I could do, but also with other letters in case some chickenshit moron like yourself called me on using an "easy letter". So i did it what, two or three times with different initial letters, check the timing motherfucker, i walked around your thesaurus crap allegation before I even started posting them. And lastly, not because I think I'm a hot shit, but because it points out what a stupid sack of shit you are. Stupid fucking ydog laid this out to nail you on the 1) the thesaurus riff, 2) if you had the knowledge to understand that such riffs are easier with letters found in latin based prefixes for content, and 3) with letters that are used to form conjunctions between the content words. Now, you sorry wipe, go back and look at the timing between my posts. Do you think I was looking up each word in a thesaurus? You're too fucking easy my friend. Find a cheaper board, a shallower board or up your fucking game here if you can. I saw the checkmate I would win with your first ddd post - witness my first post about your "brilliant "dungpool diving doggie" all proud of your three words starting with the same letter. In fact, your thesaurus attack handed me a better victory than I ever expected. I anticipated you accusing me of it. The sapients here I'm sure caught what I was doing. It was just over your head. Hence your thesaurus retreat. You can't play in this league anon, when the pitches come fast and subtle, but stick around. Sometimes the soccerball needs a little more air.
ydog
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:45:54 (EST)

My two cents are: Does this mean Jeb is out on the ledge again? Ready to jump or be pushed.
gnat
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:32:05 (EST)

My two cents are: Hiyall. Dog here, still basking in the current retchie attempt to manipulate the courts. That appeal that a manual recount is unconstitutional just shows how truly scared they are. One wonders what they're afraid will come out. Why the votes were miscounted, whose were tossed, a level of scrutiny the vast bush-harris conspiracy dosen't want public. I wouldn't be surprised if the county subcontracts to provide the voting booths and counting weren't sub-contracted to a neal bush puppet corporation.
ydog
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:22:20 (EST)

My two cents are: Whoever said the babe slept her way to stardom is wrong. The Florida Secretary of State is in charge of museum openings, chamber concerts, and wine-tasting events. She got her job by knowing a lot of women named Muffy.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:14:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Hey, what's this stuff about the Florida courts saying the babe can't certify until the votes are counted? I thought Pete said that couldn't happen. And if she certifies, how is Judicial Watch ever going to save the country by approving or disapproving of Dade County vote counting procedures?
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:12:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Metric system is used because Napoleon Buonaparte had a hair up his ass about everything being easily divisible by 10. It's an anachronism in the day of the hand-held calculator and the personal computer, but dumb ideas die hard once they have developed momentum and a lobby.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 20:09:43 (EST)

My two cents are: Think I got that wrong. The guy told me today that it was 4.8, two millimeters less than 5, so what is the next thing in metric. Centimeters? I don't know the metric system. In fact, don't even know why its used. Seems hard to me. rather have inches..........john�
J
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 19:20:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Take care of things and have a good weekend, John.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 19:16:14 (EST)

My two cents are: If Gore doesn't gain considerably this weekend it will be ended Mon by the Fla Supreme Court. they're giving the dems a chance over the weekend to gain.// I'll not commit yet,Curt as I still have to see the vascular surgeo in awhile, Plus somehow the oncologist has got to get my blood count up. No one can operate on me with a count like I have. when an aneurysm like I have gets to a 5, as in millimeters its usually operated on.......John�
J
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 19:11:51 (EST)

My two cents are: "It's over with. Whoever's behind, that's the election. I mean, that's the whole thing. Remember, it's 300 votes, it's so close. I mean - and so, that will be it. Whoever's ahead."
Chicago Mayor Richard Daley Jr.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 18:58:34 (EST)

My two cents are: "Al Gore is a heavyweight intellect in much the same way that Alec Baldwin is a heavyweight intellect (in fact, in exactly the same way). Al Gore is the D.C. equivalent of that oxymoronic phenomenon, the Hollywood intellectual: someone who reads a couple of books of lit-ra-chure in a town where everyone else in effect reads "coverage," and who thereby elevates himself in his own mind to deep-thinker status."
Ron Rosenbaum, Liberal
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 18:54:17 (EST)

My two cents are: Hi John, great to hear from you. I just sent you an e-mail about 15 minutes ago. Sounds like good news healthwise, although I must admit I wouldn't know a 4.8 on the aortic aneurysm scale from a 4.8 on the Richter. So, do feel up to having a couple beers yet? Until there is a winner that particular offer stands open. Let us "Agree in advance that no matter who wins, we'll get together after the election for a beer at the Silver Lake Inn" (Monday, October 30, 2000 at 11:14:12).
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 18:28:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Geez, I go for a few days and the world turns around. Liberal Supreme court of Fla should help Gore but it will make no difference if he is behind Monday. The game ends Monday. /// But I got some good news today from a sonogram I just had on the aortic aneurysm. It isn't as big as they said last year. They said it was a 5 then. Today, on the best equiptment it was only 4.8 Big, but made me feel better. I was expecting something much more radical. Like 6. Now I have to get my blood count up. I'm fighting this battle like you guys are fighting the political one. Someone's got to feed the birds. Might as well be me.......John�
J
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 18:06:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Judicial Watch never won a case against democrats in their entire existance.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:57:22 (EST)

My two cents are: "Judicial Watch's intervention in the Florida electoral count is not on behalf of any particular candidate, but only for the American people. Because the next President must have a mandate to govern, the American people must know we elected the right person. Only by ensuring that the results of the Florida counts are valid can the nation be reassured."
Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:56:20 (EST)

My two cents are: "When government officials play games to prevent the American people from learning the truth, the presumption arises that they are up to no good. In the face of apparent corruption ? Judicial Watch acts. Today, Judicial Watch regrettably had to sue Palm Beach, Broward and Volusia counties over their illegal behavior."
Judicial Watch Chairman and General Counsel Larry Klayman
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:55:31 (EST)

My two cents are: (Washington, DC and Miami, Florida) Judicial Watch, Inc., the public-interest law firm which investigates and prosecutes government corruption, today is forced to file three lawsuits against Palm Beach, Broward and Volusia counties in Florida. While most Florida counties granted Judicial Watch access to contested ballots ? which access will be exercised in the next week or so with over 300 Judicial Watch volunteers ? Palm Beach, Broward and Volusia counties appear to be playing games over allowing Judicial Watch to inspect and count their ballots. This necessitated the emergency lawsuits.
judicialwatch.org
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:54:38 (EST)

My two cents are: Gore has 53 votes that aren't added to that total yet.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:36:07 (EST)

My two cents are: Bush keeps adding . up to 345.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:34:29 (EST)

My two cents are: (CNBC) News this morning that a judge ruled Florida's chief election overseer hadn't acted improperly in rejecting manually recounted votes initially encouraged investors that the election saga soon would end. But stocks slipped back into the red as supporters of Vice President Al Gore vowed to appeal to Florida's Supreme Court.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:30:12 (EST)

My two cents are: (MSNBC) Court stays Florida certification. � Pending resolution of appeals, the court has enjoined Secretary of State Katherine Harris from certifying the state�s vote count as she had planned to do Saturday at noon. Details to come.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:27:22 (EST)

My two cents are: What is that some temporary injunction while they ponder the case? Sort of like the ruling where they let hand counts continue?
Glint <guess we'll know soon enough>
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:20:42 (EST)

My two cents are: Gore withdraws his concession.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:20:31 (EST)

My two cents are: What I meant was, tonight's predictions (after midnight) are more favorable than this predictions for this morning. Haven't heard yet how it was. Guess I'll go over and visit the sci groups in usenet for a while....
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:18:33 (EST)

My two cents are: Hey Crynic. Beautiful day in Maryland, isn't it? It was cloudy when I went to bed last night so I didn't try to get up and see any Leonid meteors last night. Computer paged me around 5 a.m. and it was clear then, but I stayed in bed. Tongight should be clear, and a couple hours after midnight the show should be better than was predicted for Maryland. E, you might be able to see them because it sounds like your site is fairly dark. Coppertone -- get out of the city, girl and go look.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:16:02 (EST)

My two cents are: Fla Supreme Court has just ruled the Fla Sec State cannot certify the election tomorrow. Status quo continues.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:15:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Well if I wanna git called names an' diss'd I know where t' come back t'. Da bomb! Badass bye.
Yo' whippin' boy
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:09:26 (EST)

My two cents are: Gore is going to concede in 5 minutes.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:05:05 (EST)

My two cents are: Coppertone, there are only 70-some-odd days left of the current administration. The GSA has offices sitting empty in Washington for the president elect to get his/her (guess it's his) act together and start sending out invitations to join the cabinet. How many people with the power to make things turn are going to quit their current (and I might add high paying) jobs to accept an offer with a "self-proclaimed president-elect in waiting"? Gore knows who won, but he's clinging by his nails like noone before him forcing the state and the courts to pry them off one at a time. The stock market knows this and has been responding accordingly. Gore has cooked his own goose and I hope the country will forget it long enough in 2004 to nominate him for president, but then be reminded of it again "big time" when it comes time for the general election.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:04:35 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, I gotta go fight this traffic and get to remedial school. Sucks to be me. Then, I gotta go to this party my boy's throwing, and then back to that club. At least, that's where my friends want to go. I'm hoping that they'll have a good enough time at the party, so that they won't want to go to the club, because I'm sleepy enough as it is, and if we do all of that, I won't wake up tomorrow until 5 pm. Anyway, take care, darlings. :-)
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 17:03:03 (EST)

My two cents are: Toine's beyond prozac. Way beyond. His drivel is pathetic - and worst of all - it's not even funny.
the crynic
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:58:32 (EST)

My two cents are: crynic, I just said I don't care. Neither does Gore. The fact of the matter is that things are just way too shady for every American, or at least the majority of Americans, to trust the results of this election. One statewide recount wouldn't take that long, and would grant your boy the legitimacy he needs. You guys need to get a clue on that. Your boy looks very non-legit at this juncture, and it'll only hurt him in the long run. // I don't know where Papi is. I sure hope he's alright. You have a nice weekend too, crynic.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:57:58 (EST)

My two cents are: I wonder at mental institutions that allow people like 'Toine to have a PC in their cell.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:54:53 (EST)

My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
gore has the most electoral votes? what happened, did they vote early?
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:52:32 (EST)

My two cents are: Whatever, if you truly think Gore is prolonging this agony in the best interest of the people - you are naive. The only people he's doing this for are himself, his staff, and his special interest buddies - get a clue. This was his election to lose and he did just that. Someone should tell him so. Yeah, right, Gore doesn't want the presidency. Wow. Have a nice weekend. /// Any word from John?
the crynic
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:51:54 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, after it looked like gore would win early on, the Bush people came out with,"lets boycott the inaugeration." Great,boycott it seeing as how it looks like Bush is going to be the winner. i don't believe the people here are losers,crynuic. they have stood up for what they believe in and that doesn't constitute a loser. Bush will win without the recount the way it is going or with it for that matter so stop pissing and moaning. You have the Presidency for 4 years. just hope he doesn't take us down the same economic road Reagan did.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:51:48 (EST)

My two cents are: "Kiss mah ass yo' ass mama fuckin' ass faced bass." That's just sad. Makes me wish I had some Prozac to give to you, 'Toine.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:50:51 (EST)

My two cents are: Go' aint tryin' t' cement nothin' 'escept maybe hopin' dat played out Daley dude could be wassups tailor an' fit him out wit' some waterproff cement overcoat an' boots, 'espense.
yo' love pappa
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:50:45 (EST)

My two cents are: No, sorry yo' ass punk-ass moron. If I wuz spoutin' Amos an' Andy I would say sump'n likes "Goe tucks wike a bass tuck tuckin' on a kinny dippin' kid's ass." Kiss mah ass yo' ass mama fuckin' ass faced bass.
chew yo' masta's arm
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:45:47 (EST)

My two cents are: However; if Bush wants to usurp the presidency by whatever means necessary, it's all gravy to me. I didn't know Bush was a disciple of Malcolm X.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:44:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Well fine, Glint. It's all good with me. Gore's saying that, obviously, folks have issues with this election, and Gore was just trying to cement Bush's presidency. Seeing as how Bush is surrounded by his constituents, who all feel the election was legit (which they would, of course,) he doesn't understand that half the people in America don't trust him. Bush doesn't seem to get a lot of things.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:43:03 (EST)

My two cents are: Gore has the most electoral votes, crynic.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:40:27 (EST)

My two cents are: Give crynic a break. The guy has a lot of stress on him what with maritime industry regulations and siring children out of wedlock.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:39:07 (EST)

My two cents are: Coppertone, what "statewide recount" that Bush didn't agree to are you talking about, if not the automatic one (which he does agree with)? I mean he doesn't agree with who (whom)? If you mean that one Gore offered the other night, where he said there should be a manual recount in each and every county, get real. Gore knew and Bush knew (and Gore knew Bush knew so he knew Bush had to reject the idea) that the deadline for requesting manual recounts had passed. There was no legal basis, without more protracted court wrangling (which Gore would love because it would stretch out his ultimate defeat and pollute the waters even more) where state wide manual recounts could be requested even if there were some legitimate systematic error to claim as a basis in the first place. Gore was just billowing at the gills with smoke and meaningless tinkling sounds.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:38:43 (EST)

My two cents are: Sorry, but it appears that, according to the electoral college - it's Gore who doesn't fit. Accept it.
the crynic
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:38:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Of course, 'Toine is left off the list entirely now that he's reduced to a clipping service, a cut-and-pasted wuss and pathetic Amos and Andy parody.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:37:27 (EST)

My two cents are: I thought we weren't going there anymore, crynic. Have I backed you in a corner or something, such that you have to reach down into the very bottom of the barrel for something with which to come back?
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:35:41 (EST)

My two cents are: As weak as Pete usually is, as comical as MK ever was, as schizo as Glint seems to be, as hare-brained as Jeremiah appears, still it's crynic who just doesn't get it. It's crynic who just doesn't fit.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:35:07 (EST)

My two cents are: Don't you just love the way glint calls these republican floozies by their first name like he knew them or something. Look at them more closely and its readily appparent how they got where they are. Bed and better yourself is the motto of republican women.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:33:53 (EST)

My two cents are: "Gore's just trying to appease people, so that we can at least move forward, and try to trust our President. Gore doesn't want this presidency anyway. Whatever - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:29:22 (EST)" - - Naive little girl.
the crynic
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:32:59 (EST)

My two cents are: I don't understand what you're talking about, 'Toine. I'm not a country bouqui, as my mother would call you.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:32:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Don't worry about it, crynic. Even if I listed them, you wouldn't believe me. You're not the one with the unanswered questions, you're not part of the 50+% of American people who don't trust Shrubbie.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:30:47 (EST)

My two cents are: Hey, dat's whut da damn dude said, baby. What it is, Mama! Go' had some sista' but now she be wo'm food. Peeks likes da Bush relashuns got'ta some swell drumstick faist around da damn played out Thanksgivin' table next week afta' all, be I right, sugah' plum?
yo' boss dude
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:30:25 (EST)

My two cents are: See, "sorelosergoregate" doesn't work, because Gore's not a sore loser. Sorry if you don't get it, 'Toine, but over 50% of Americans believe there was chacainery(sp?) in the Florida election. Gore's just trying to appease people, so that we can at least move forward, and try to trust our President. Gore doesn't want this presidency anyway.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:29:22 (EST)

My two cents are: What unanswered questions? As I recall, he won the vote, the recount, the rerecount, and finally he'll be declared the winner by AN ELECTED patriot. Gore should concede and fade into oblivion. Maybe then he'll retain at least a fragment of integrity; but I won't hold my breath.
the crynic
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:28:47 (EST)

My two cents are: Gore's not an only child. He had a sister, who was unfortunately taken from him. Besides, Gore's not the one acting like a spoiled brat.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:27:14 (EST)

My two cents are: this page should be renamed to sorelosergoregate
or sourgrapegate
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:24:31 (EST)

My two cents are: Still and all, even if his lead has been reduced to 300, he's still in the lead. Even if he wins by 10, he still wins. You'd think, if he felt as though he legitimately won Florida, that his lead would still stand, no matter how many recounts they do. However; if he had agreed to the statewide recount, folks would at least be satisfied that he won legitimately. No one has a big problem with him winning by 10 votes. Folks do; however, have a major problem with him being declared the winner with all these unanswered questions and speculations hanging over him like a dark cloud, from which he will never, and I mean NEVER, escape.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:22:23 (EST)

My two cents are: can sure tell gore's an only child, can't we.
his sister croaked tokin' on daddy gore's crop o' 'baccy
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:21:21 (EST)

My two cents are: Actually in Florida there was a recount and it hurt Bush. If you'll recall his lead went from ~1700 to 300. As far as hand counts go, it's no longer Bush's decision. Sure, he could have requested counts without providing a basis, like the ones Gore asked for that may wind up in file 13, but there was no basis (as Pete keeps pointing out). Anyway, futher questions about hand counts can go to Kathy. Of course the Gore campaign wants to strip the people's choice of her authority, don't they? And they say Bush wants to take it out of the people's hands - yeah right.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:18:06 (EST)

My two cents are: What Shrubbie needs the most is legitimacy in the eyes of all the American public. He has legitimacy among his constituents, but there's more than 50% of the American public out there who know that there was some foul play at some point, and thus, will never accept him. Trust is one of the most important things a President can have. We saw this during Fornigate, how bad things got when the trust was broken, and how, no matter what Clinton did, he couldn't get the trust back for a lot of people. Half of the country doesn't trust Shrubbie. Most never did, almost all never will. He can't conquer the people and take their trust, he has to win them and their trust over.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:08:36 (EST)

My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
dim=democRAT
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:05:48 (EST)

My two cents are: That's the saddest thing, that Shrubbie doesn't realize that a recount of Florida is to his advantage. It would legitimize his presidency by far, if it is true that he won fair and square. It wouldn't even take that long, either. I guess Shrubbie can't wait to party until everyone's satisfied, he's got to have his, and he's got to have it now. I'm amazed he isn't an only child.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:04:49 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, crynic, I don't have a problem with giving it up. It'll only make Shrubbie look that much more shady, seeing as how he tried to usurp the presidency. I'm sure it'll all be gravy, since all his really destructive proposals are now dead in the water. Plus, he'll be a caretaker president, so we just have to hold on until 2004.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 16:00:37 (EST)

My two cents are: If the rat in the maze had Pete to interpret, maybe he could find a way out even if there wasn't one. Or maybe he wouldn't find a way out when there was one. Anything is possible with rats and mazes.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:55:31 (EST)

My two cents are: Good day, everyone. It's a beautiful day here on the east coast. A nice day to win a presidential election. ///"That fucking bitch Harris is in the same category as Linda Tripp and the nose from Arkansas,Jones. Anonymous. - Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:35:24 (EST) - So sorry, loser.//// Whatever, you gave it your all, you fought hard, you were even rational at times. But sweetie, it's time to give it up. Jump ship while you still can. Climb aboard the Goodship Bush. It's going to be a great ride.////Anyone heard from John? Hope he's ok.
the crynic
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:54:28 (EST)

My two cents are: I think Glint trying to figure out the state of politics by looking at old election web-sites is cute. Almost as much fun as training a rat to get through a maze, and then changing the maze so there is no the exit and watching the rat try to figure it out.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:50:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Great republican bitches,all of them. Add Laura, the nudie bitch to the list.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:37:06 (EST)

My two cents are: That fucking bitch Harris is in the same category as Linda Tripp and the nose from Arkansas,Jones.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:35:24 (EST)

My two cents are: What are dim hands?
gnat
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:31:36 (EST)

My two cents are: If Bush wins with the hand count factored into the certified count, then Gore needs to crawl under his rock. If Bush wins the certified count but Gore's ahead with the hand counts we'll always wonder how hand counts in the Republican counties would have turned out, and Gore will still need to crawl under his rock. <> The will of the people must prevail and they have elected Kathy Harris to oversee the election and make the tough decisions, which she has, and which have been upheld.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:30:14 (EST)

My two cents are: with all the dim hands busy counting ballots in florida the next few days the crime rate should drop. screw the fact most of them are too dumb to count and have to start over each time they reach 7.
fla supreme court stumbled onto solution of reducing crime long term
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:22:57 (EST)

My two cents are: The recounts are still going to be known and you better hope and pray that Bush still has the lead after they ARE counted, otherwise ,this is going to be cast as the year of the illegitimate President.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:22:22 (EST)

My two cents are: Pete knows nothing about this. He is just an ambulance chser.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:19:36 (EST)

My two cents are: Smart move by Harris, after reviewing the counties' rationale, to pull the plug on the hand count tar baby. After all, it could have swung either way - to Gore or Bush. Much fairer just to follow the law and go with the official recounted totals. If she would have waited until the results were in, looked at them, and then disqualified them, it would have looked worse.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 15:01:22 (EST)

My two cents are: "The schmuck goes, well, you have a big mouth (to the doctor.)"
that nails it - the schmuck's undeniabley a freakin' fag
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:58:13 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, the thing is, gnat, while Shrubbie was off frying retards, Gore was playing his part in why we're doing so fine now.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:52:02 (EST)

My two cents are: Nothing stops them from counting. But it's up to the elected SOS to determine whether they may be accepted or not. Seems like that decision is a done deal, but what the hey -- keep countin'!
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:50:53 (EST)

My two cents are: Maybe I'll side with Letterman. He said we're doing fine without either one, can't we just keep it that way.
gnat
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:48:53 (EST)

My two cents are: Wow, the web sites are drying up. Gore2000.com is now simply a store front for Gore-Lieberman *AND* Bush-Cheney memorabilia. gorelieberman.com has a scowling statement by Highmaster Daley saying "Contrary to claims being made this morning by the Bush campaign, this election is not over." I suppose it still may be true, but the site was last updated a week ago on Nov. 10!! Don't forget to switch off the lights, Al! Now bush2000.com on the other hand has the latest news from this week up until last night (today's bombshell news hasn't been added yet). <> Whatever that wagging heads are saying on the news, the truth is the events in Florida are unfolding according to Florida law. You can't expect the news media to understand that or convey the details to the reader. Even Fox News continues spouting liberal spin such as "Republican Secretary of State Harris's imposed deadline of 5:00 p.m. Tuesday" -- that should be "The statutory 5:00 p.m. Tuesday deadline enforced by Florida's elected Secretary of State Harris." No matter what you think of him we've been lucky to have Pete here interpreting and presenting the sticky details. His insights have been right so far.
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:48:27 (EST)

My two cents are: The FLA Supreme Court still has to speak on this matter. It isn't over by a long shot. I like the fact they voted unanimously yesterday to allow the recount to continue. Remember, as Yogi said. "It ain't over 'til its over."
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:44:04 (EST)

My two cents are: http://democRATS.com/images/bush_harris_cheney.gif
Funny. Sore losers.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:33:13 (EST)

My two cents are: WE CAN ACCEPT EITHER GUY, BUT WE NEED AN HONEST COUNT -- By David Nyhan, Globe Columnist, 11/17/2000 -- YOU CANNOT HONESTLY consider yourself an American patriot if you do not sincerely wish the winner of our only national election a successful and effective four-year reign. And you cannot be even a half-decent American president if you do not comport yourself, at least most of the time, in a manner that merits the respect of the citizenry in general and your political opponents in particular. With respect to the present dismal impasse in Florida, the citizenry is doing its part beautifully. There have been no riots, assassinations, no murder and no mayhem; there's not even been a punch thrown, so far as I've heard. This is model behavior for the passing of power in the mightiest nation in history. Are the candidates measuring up to the responsibility that history imposed on them? Your view of that question is shaped by how you voted Nov. 7. In close to 400 e-mails, plus letters and phone calls, I've heard several earfuls from readers on the election. Many of you were disappointed in my recommendation that Al Gore, if it turns out George W. Bush wins Florida with the absentees and the recounts, should congratulate Bush and bow out gracefully to spare the country the ordeal of legal challenges. Many Democrats among you subscribe to the Winston Churchill formula: ''Never give in, never give in, never give in.'' I don't. There's a time to give in, so as to live to fight another day. But I think it is fair to say that Gore to date has handled himself with more aplomb and dignity than his Republican rival. Perhaps the fact I voted for Agony Al colors my judgment. But here's my argument. It was Bush who kick-started his transition-team act into motion, rekindling all of our doubts about his dreamy air of entitlement, surrounded by the Old Guard of his father's administration, voted out eight years ago. It was Bush's handlers who made all the fuss initially about the Gore team getting ready to go to court (''hiss!''), and then, natch, it was the Bush-ites who raced to the courthouse first. Blaming the other guy for a maneuver you accomplished yourself is classic Bush Enterprises strategy. They did it with telling effect against Senator John McCain in the primary season and are running a sophisticated smokescreen operation again. When we have a right to expect some dignity and restraint from our two presumptive presidents, frozen as they are now in Florida amber, they should both deliver. Gore's offer Wednesday night - to abide by a statewide Florida ballot recount and abjure any further legal action in any other state - was a reasonable, fair, and sensible move. That it may have been good politics, clever spin, or a last-ditch effort to forestall a Bush Jr. presidency. But it was also reasonable, fair, sensible. Bush's refusal to abide by a Florida-wide recount gives away the insecurity of his position. His hiding behind the skirts of the Florida secretary of state, Kathleen Harris, is a naked political ploy. She is a Bush partisan, and the notion that this woman can pull the strings to deny the nation a Florida recount is sure to inflame that half of the electorate that thinks Gore has a right to a fair count. Bush seems incapable of making the transition from political candidate to putative president. He seems not to comprehend that the public trust is something that, once squandered, can never be fully redeemed. His pledge to ''restore honesty and integrity to the White House'' is weakened daily as his underlings shuck and jive and strive desperately to forestall the full statewide recount that alone will restore faith in the process by which Florida's electoral votes determine the president. Bush seems not to understand that wide swaths of this country - the West Coast, the whole of the Northeast above Virginia (save New Hampshire), and the Michigan-Illinois-Wisconsin-Iowa portion of the North rejected his candidacy. These voters have to be won over - they cannot be conquered. Many of us are put off by Texas justice and Texas ways. We do not like the way Texas treats its citizens and its environment. I look at Bush Sr. and I see Willie Horton. I look at Bush Jr. and I see 145 hooded, manacled prisoners wheeled into death chambers, the latest of them another retarded man, as the metronome Texas guillotine drops again. We do not like the way this election ended, nor did we like the way the networks blew the call. But we can live with a president who wins by an eyelash. It is not too much to ask that there be an honest count. And the fact that Bush refuses Gore's offer to abide by a statewide recount reinforces the suspicions of many of us that Dubbaya is not up to the job.
True, true
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:32:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Everyone on the radio and in the paper seems to be saying that not allowing a full recount of Florida, or certifying these results quickly, without answering a lot of questions, will prove detrimental to the Bush camp, if Bush does win. You basically can't conquer people, you have to win them over, and pushing for a cert before everyone is satisfied will make folks feel like they're conquered. They're also saying that Bush is hiding behind Katherine Harris' skirt. Actually, both Bush brothers are. Many people feel it's shady to let an obvious partisan choose the President, when we can wait for the Florida Supreme Court to decide. Everyone wants this thing wrapped up quickly, but honestly.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:30:21 (EST)

My two cents are: http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20001111/capt.bush_2000_l0n.jpg
POTUS-elect come Saturday
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:27:04 (EST)

My two cents are: So, driver's remedial school wasn't so painful. It was tolerable, in fact. The highlight was that we learned that we drive to fulfill our basic needs in life: survival, love/belonging, fun, freedom, and power. Then, we had to take this survey and profile ourselves, to see which needs we fulfill when driving. I scored the highest on power-assertive and fun. I also scored pretty high on power-competitive and freedom. I scored real low on love/belonging. They didn't test us for survival, because everyone drives for that. Anyway, they say that those who drive for love/belonging are the most cautious and responsible drivers, thus, the ones who get the least tickets. So, the instructor's going over each category. There was this guy sitting next to me, and from the moment the class started, he's asking all these questions pertaining to his own driving record. I was looking at this guy, like, no one gives a fuck about your driving record, you schmuck, just shut the fuck up! So, the instructor gets to love/belonging. He asks, who scored high on love/belonging? This doctor sitting off in the corner says, anyone who scored high on love/belonging is gay. I was like, oh ho ho shit!! The schmuck sitting next to me says, what did you say? I looked at his paper. He had scored high on love/belonging. I said, he said anyone who scored high on love/belonging is gay! And I started laughing. The schmuck goes, well, you have a big mouth (to the doctor.) The doctor says, just kidding. The schmuck says, me too. I was like, what a schmuck. The instructor reprimanded the doctor, but I thought it was way funny.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:26:29 (EST)

My two cents are: I hope that Gore hasn't tossed out that concession speech he was about to deliver this past Tuesday before last. ;-)
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:24:16 (EST)

My two cents are: Rev. Jesse Jackson, our blabbermouth-in-chief, has been unable to rouse more than a tiny remnant of unemployed rabble, and so far they haven't made enough noise to disturb the cat, napping at the nursing home.
jess-E jackson, b.i.c.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:10:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Maureen Dowd, who wields the most poisonous pen in Gotham, can't get enough of bashing everybody named Bush: "The Bush monopoly, after all, has operated in the interregnum with the same arrogant philosophy as the Microsoft monopoly: You can have all the choice you want � as long as you choose us." Poor Mo. The embittered Irish spinster, ever dreaming of cold, gray Easter morns and exploding British post offices, proving you can take the girl out of the shanty, even reward her with a column in the New York Times, but you can't get the shanty out of the girl. The Gores are just as WASP as the Bushes, but the Bushes spring from New England gentility and the Gores from the Baptist good ol' boy culture of the rural South, making the Bushes more like the English she was taught to resent and rage against. Mo learns nothing, forgets nothing, and hates everything that hints of Anglo-Saxon. George W. never would have taken her home to meet the folks, but look who gets to throw the ink bomb.
bushes - "new E-ngland gentility"
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:08:08 (EST)

My two cents are: I guess the bottom line is they can continue to count but it won't count.
gnat
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:03:07 (EST)

My two cents are: When this is all over, we spray for lawyers We've learned one stunning thing this week: The idea that America is a nation of laws, as we've always been told it is, is bunk. What we are is a nation of hungry lawyers on the make. Lawyers, not law. Big difference. The lawyers themselves are making their usual unseemly spectacle of themselves, campaigning for clients and saying the most ridiculous things, all to get on television in pursuit of an opportunity to put their hands in somebody else's pants. They've descended on Florida by the hundreds, spreading across the land like the Ebola virus. Warren Christopher, who looks as if he escaped from a mortuary just in time, can't escape Bill Daley's shadow. Mr. Daley, who knows that everyone imagines him a chip off the old block who stole the 1960 election for John F. Kennedy, stuffs Mr. Christopher's addled brain with sound bites, winds him up and sends him out to meet the cameras for every news cycle. Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor who has been hanging out with O.J. and Klaus von Bulow and their ilk for so long that he has begun to think like them, grows so angry and frustrated with getting only the crumbs of this litigation that he descends into the kind of unimaginative name-calling last heard on the schoolyard: Katherine Harris, the Florida secretary of state, is a "crook" and a "criminal." Joe Lieberman, having relinquished the last shred of the reputation he once had for a sober regard for facts and fairness, made the rounds of the morning television shows to cast Al Gore's scorched-earth strategy as the American way of electing presidents. When one of NBC's network blondes suggested that he was the man who had talked Al into playing his long-shot bet for the White House, little Joe basked in what he took for praise from a pretty girl. "Gosh," he said. "Gee."
lieberman dweeberman
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 14:02:54 (EST)

My two cents are: A vote for Ralph Nader is a vote for George Bush. But a vote for Gore is a vote for Pat Buchanan.
will it fit on a bumper sticker?
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:58:52 (EST)

My two cents are: "The Gore campaign dispatched Warren Christopher To observe the election in Florida. And about time. None of this mess would be happening if he were still alive."
Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:56:28 (EST)

My two cents are: In a stunning blow to the Gore's "if you recount them enough times, then maybe I can still win" strategy, Judge Lewis in Tallahassee ruled that Secretary of State Katherine Harris used reasoned judgment in excluding hand recounts submitted after Tuesday's deadline, and that her decision should stand. Gore's lawyers undoubtedly knocked on the Florida supreme court clerk's door before the announcement was even complete, but their case is weak, and Lewis's strong decision clears the way for Florida to finalize the election tomorrow. Lewis's decision comes on the heels of his previous order, which enforced Florida's statutory Tuesday deadline for all counties to submit their final vote counts, but left it to the Secretary of State Harris's non-arbitrary discretion to determine whether to admit late hand counts. After receiving written explanations for the delays, Harris considered each county's request, looking to see if there were irregularities that would legally necessitate a manual recount or other remedy. Finding no allegations of fraud or machine malfunction, she reasonably decided that the counties did not provide sufficient justification to deviate from Florida's deadline to permit admission of the late counts. Based on this record, Judge Lewis's rightly decided that Harris complied with his requirement that she exercise her discretion in a non-arbitrary fashion, thereby allowing her to certify the result. All eyes now turn to the Florida supreme court for what could be the last serious legal challenge to the Florida election. Gore's team of lawyers, which has the eerie feel of an O. J. legal reunion, faces an uphill battle to get Judge Lewis's decision overruled. First, the statute applying the deadline is arguably more restrictive than even Judge Lewis admits, mandating that Harris has little, if any, discretion to admit late counts. Second, Judge Lewis's opinion established a standard of non-arbitrariness that Harris clearly met. The standards she applied were clear, reasonable, and non-arbitrary, and will be difficult to challenge. Third, higher courts generally give great deference to lower court's findings of fact, and traditionally act with some degree of comity toward the decisions of executive decisions. Accordingly, Judge Lewis's decision that Harris's actions were reasoned and non-arbitrary should stand unless it is clearly erroneous � a high legal standard that a contrary construction of the facts does not meet � and Harris's decision should receive judicial deference unless it is patently unlawful. Given that Gore will have enormous difficulty meeting either of these standards, Judge Lewis's decision should stand. If Gore does not get the ruling he wants from the Florida supremhe wants from the Florida supreme court, he may turn to the United States Supreme Court. The high court will probably not even take the case, which would not be an unusual in a case without substantial legal questions but with heavy political baggage. If they do take the case, then consistent with numerous precedents they will probably find the state court's determinations controlling as to state-law questions and findings of fact, and thereby would likely affirm the state court's judgment in the absence of a federal law question. Before the ruling was issued, Warren Christopher stated that Gore would not concede even if the count is certified Saturday and Bush is declared the winner. Thankfully, Gore's concession is not required for the election to be finalized. Lewis's decision suggests that Florida courts are not going to put up with endless 13th-hour challenges, and it is doubtful that the public will put up with this much longer either. Gore can turn the limo around all he wants, but this election is going forward.
Open Letter #177
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:46:35 (EST)

My two cents are: dems must be wringing their hands raw wondering how one of their own, a judge, could have strayed from the party line dictated by bill daley and al gore.
they fought the law and the law won
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:43:57 (EST)

My two cents are: Kathy Harris did the right thing on Wednesday when she denied petitions by counties to turn hand tabulated ballot counts in late. Her judgement was based on the merits of the recount, not the results of the recount. If she had waited until the results of hand recounts were turned in from specific heavy Democrat counties selected by Gore, and if they showed at that time Gore had taken the lead, then she would face the risk of being accused of partison politics if she refused to accept them.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:41:31 (EST)

My two cents are: ``We believe that once you take the absentee ballots, and add them to the already certified count -- whether it shows Al Gore ahead, or whether it shows George Bush ahead -- that'll be the result. And we are living by that. We are prepared to live by that win, lose or draw.''
Bush's vice presidential running mate, Dick Cheney <shows he's a man, with real live swinging chads, campared to the gore/daley/lieberman ticket>
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:32:06 (EST)

My two cents are: ``I am pleased that Judge Terry Lewis has supported my authority to exercise the duties assigned by law to the office of secretary of state ... We will continue to follow the election procedures provided by Florida law and we anticipate receiving the certifications of the overseas absentee ballots from all counties by noon tomorrow (Saturday).''
Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:31:34 (EST)

My two cents are: ``It appears that the secretary (Harris) has exercised her reasoned judgement to determine what relevant factors and criteria should be considered ... My order requires nothing more. Accordingly, it is ordered and adjudged that the plaintiffs' motion is denied.''
Leon County Circuit judge Terry Lewis
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:31:17 (EST)

My two cents are: boo-fucking-hoo!
Georgie Boy
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:25:22 (EST)

My two cents are: Lewis, himself a Democrat, ruled that Florida's top election official, Republican Secretary of State Katherine Harris (news - external web site), had acted correctly in deciding on Wednesday not to include the results from manual recounts in three heavily Democratic counties in the final state total. That means that Republican nominee George W. Bush (news - web sites), who is ahead of Gore in Florida by a razor-thin margin of 300 votes, could be declared winner of the state's 25 electoral college votes when Harris certifies the result on Saturday. Bush was described by aides as ``understandably pleased'' by the Florida judge's decision.
icing on the cake: the judge is a democrat!
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:24:18 (EST)

My two cents are: TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - A judge on Friday cleared the way for Florida officials to declare within 24 hours the winner of the presidential vote in the state and by extension who would win the White House. The ruling by Leon County Circuit judge Terry Lewis dealt a blow to Democrat Al Gore (news - web sites), whose campaign has been hoping that results from manual recounts of votes in Florida could swing the lead in the neck-and-neck presidential election 10 days ago in their favor.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:22:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Here are some pics to go along with several recent posts. http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/forensic/tcfor117.jpg (for Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 10:12:17) /// http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/forensic/tcfor071.jpg (Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 21:40:17) /// http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/genetic/tcge014.jpg (Friday, November 17, 2000 at 03:56:55) /// http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/genetic/tcge056.jpg (Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 00:01:59) - image of the poster, Gore goon Bill Daley.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 13:12:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Hi. Been scrolling. "are caskets designed to prevent the corpses from later being consumed by us as transformed through some other edible ranker on the food chain?" - Ydog. I thought caskets were to keep the dead guy inside from getting out. Seriously. Why else would the locks be on the outside?
Glint
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 12:52:15 (EST)

My two cents are: Them of us located hyar in th' panhan'le of th' great state of Flo'ida is mighty proud of this hyar mo'nin''s judgement, as yo' might rightly tell, ah reckon.
Roscoe
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 12:03:28 (EST)

My two cents are: From Tallahassee: "Plaintiff's motion has been denied!" Ah heard th' announcement on th' car radio this hyar mo'nin'.
A Mighty Fortress Is Our God!
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 12:01:06 (EST)

My two cents are: or like the gore campaign, stole one.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 11:50:28 (EST)

My two cents are: congratulations to ydog. it appears he bought a thesaurus yesterday.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 11:46:34 (EST)

My two cents are: Bush may have won the popular vote in a majority of states, but Gore won the popular vote in a majority of counties, probably, because counties in a lot of the hick states tend to be large and populated mostly by jack-rabbits and rattlesnakes. It's true that the media biased the end results, but the media always biases the end results -- just look at what they did to George III, not to mention Harding and Coolidge and Hoover. Plus not only did they steal a lot of votes, but they're still stealing votes, the Democrats years ago promoted a bunch of birthday-party magicians, sleight-of-hand experts and monte dealers into the recount boards and they're poking out chads too slick for the cameras to catch.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 10:55:04 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, I didn't want to say it like that, but when you put it that way, 03:56:55, there's no denying it. // Morning all.
Whatever
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 10:47:49 (EST)

My two cents are: Bush won the popular vote in the honyocker states, the great heartland, the lightly-populated college-football-oriented rube zone, the place where people line up to see the siamese twins, two kids joined at the hip, playing in a trailer house rolled in as an attraction at the State Fair. He also got most of the south, having appeared at Bob Jones U. and saluted the stars and bars over the carolina state house. What you have here is a nation divided, rubes and klux-men against the slightly more sophisticated or worldly coastal crowd. That's why it's sort of funny that the crynic, who fancies himself a suave rou�, puts the dog down for living in a hick state when he's allied himself with the Cornball Belt, North Dakota to Texas, west to Las Vegas and east to Georgia, and just voted for a lipless ne'er-do-well who ran on a platform of his dad was the president once.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 03:56:55 (EST)

My two cents are: Gore did not win the popular sstate in a majority of states. also the media biased the end result. and they stole a lot of votes.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 01:25:35 (EST)

My two cents are: If they thought so strongly he should be president, how come Gore won the popular vote and will probably win the whole thing. Some poll.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 17, 2000 at 00:09:37 (EST)

My two cents are: This was not an internet poll. This was the same one that showed the election even on election day. Guess what....

- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:58:23 (EST)

My two cents are: The internet is populated by rich ,near middle age wonks who all vote republican. Every poll ever taken on the internet has favored the GOP.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:56:02 (EST)

My two cents are: As opposed to....

- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:54:37 (EST)

My two cents are: ppppubbie geek poll.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:53:46 (EST)

My two cents are: Favor B-B-Bubba Bush? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:51:45 (EST)

My two cents are: Well when you put it that way.
No.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:35:03 (EST)

My two cents are: Are there really some fools left who put their confidence in polls?
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:31:15 (EST)

My two cents are: Harris Poll: Americans Favor Bush, Oppose Recount Americans want George W. Bush to be president and overwhelmingly oppose allowing hand recounts in four Democrat-dominated Florida counties to determine the next president, a massive Internet poll reveals. By a margin of 51 percent to 40 percent, respondents to a Harris Interactive poll thought Bush should be president. By 52 percent to 32 percent, they believe that Bush will be elected president "if the votes are counted perfectly accurately and honestly in Florida," Harris Interactive said today. Independents sided with Republicans in supported Bush, while Democrats still favored Gore. The online Harris Poll of more than 100,000 Americans was completed Tuesday. The poll found that: Gore is losing more support than Bush. If Gore is declared the winner in Florida, only 42 percent of U.S. voters will believe that the results have been arrived at fairly. By contrast, 56 percent of the voters will believe that the results have been fairly arrived at if Bush wins the Florida election.

- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:24:19 (EST)

My two cents are: The technical and semiotic religious term for the poisoning of cemetary fruit (in a non-isease bearing sense) is "contagion" the properties of one sacred element being transferred to another through contact. nite again.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:19:42 (EST)

My two cents are: Gee, anon at 22.12, there's that pesky "intent"in law. somwhow compltely antithetical to petes finge loonball ejaculations over the rule of law. I did notice that for the first time in 2 years, pete actually acknowledged that there is a concept of intent in law, this after denying/ignoring it in my posts for the same period of time. He tried to cover this with a "for theumpteenth time, ydog, intent is....must be shown the law is anbigious..." sort of like miss bunnyfucker with her panties at her knees in the carrol county drive-in theater. How did you learn about intent in law pete? over hear the senior guys in the lawfirm mailroom discussing it while waiting to get your delivery route for the day? nite all.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:16:51 (EST)

My two cents are: Pass the spare-ribs.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:13:26 (EST)

My two cents are: This I think helps clarify the cemetary fruit and food issue. I guess the foodchain lies at the root of it. Since we generally decline cannibalism, is cemetary fruit a proxy for the same? are caskets designed to prevent the corpses from later being consumed by us as transformed through some other edible ranker on the food chain? Traditional cemetary plants seem to be the rosebush, etc. not foodstuffs. That's the crux I think, cemetary fruit is cannibalism by association. Now where's that fingertip?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:08:52 (EST)

My two cents are: The little story about the seafood feast ensuing after recovering the pilot bodies reminds me of gunder grass' dog years or maybe it was tin drum, yes, tin drum.. A scene in which a guy is fishing for eels with a horsehead tied to a length of baling wire. Standing off the edge of a jetty near where the vistula river runs into the baltic sea on a cold grey day the old fisherman hauls the head out of the water, snatches the eels out of it and throws them in a bag of salt. In so doing he comments about how much fatter the eels have gotten since a ship of 300 souls sank the week before just offshore. Oscar, his mother, and Jan, her lover walk on ahead, while oscars cuckhold father negotiates the price of some eels for dinner and then catches up to tell them what a shrewd bargain he'd made.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 23:03:32 (EST)

My two cents are: Oh, now there's a stellar analogy. anonymous dosen't have a name, byline poster dosen't understand the page format. Ha Ha Ha. At least I'm not wriggling among the laughing stalks trying to shed my skin of truth in the autumn garden.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 22:54:43 (EST)

My two cents are: Rouverol said a programming error in the machines that read the ballots might have caused the mix-up in Palm Beach County. He noted that the county was heavily Democratic and would have been expected to go for Gore in a big way. "I can see why there's a pretty good reason why the Republicans are so concerned about the hand recount," he said. "It sounds to me that the glitch is in the programming, not the butterfly ballot. Whether it"s purposeful or accidental, I"m not prepared to say."
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 22:23:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Got to watch them Solicitors.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 22:15:46 (EST)

My two cents are: New York Times QUOTE OF THE DAY (11/15/00) "If we are going to allow somebody to request a recount, the intent obviously is that you expect a recount to be included." - TOM BROWN, an author of Florida's election laws.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 22:12:04 (EST)

My two cents are: ding dong
the postman always rings twice
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 22:04:43 (EST)

My two cents are: EIGHT YEARS FOR MAN WHO COOKED WIFE'S HEAD 21:40 Thursday 16 November 2000 A postman who killed his wife and cooked her head in the oven has been jailed for eight years at the Old Bailey. Roger Frisby, 42, was cleared of murdering his wife June, 36, but convicted of her manslaughter on the grounds of provocation. Frisby, of Plumstead, south London, told the court he snapped during a heated row. He hit Mrs Frisby over the head a number of times with a claw hammer - then cut up her body. After throwing her limbs off the White Cliffs of Dover, he cooked her head, feet and hands in the oven. He later buried the head on Sidcup golf course, in Kent, and threw the torso in a nearby river. Frisby told family and friends that his wife had deserted him and their two children, Ruby, four, and Lucy, six months. But he confessed everything when her skull was unearthed by a dog 15 months later. He told startled detectives that he had baked the head at gas mark 8 for several hours to try to disguise it. He had spent several days cutting Mrs Frisby up in their bedroom and then drove with his children to Dover. The girls sat in the car eating crisps and drinking as he emptied plastic bags filled with his wife's remains over the cliff. The court was told that they married in 1994 but had a stormy relationship. They had parted for a time after Mrs Frisby had an affair with a solicitor. She was unhappy and wanted to move the family to Scotland. Frisby refused to move. He attacked his wife after she had been on a 24-hour drinking binge. He told police he snapped after she hit their eldest daughter.
uh, 8 years? That is better than alimony.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 21:40:17 (EST)

My two cents are: ydog has distemper.
apparently
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 21:15:20 (EST)

My two cents are: MIAMI (AP) -- William Rouverol watches the Florida ballot debacle with more than just a passing interest. After all, he designed the voting system at the center of the whole mess. ''It's sort of a matter of pride,'' the 82-year-old retired mechanical engineering professor said in a telephone interview from his home in Berkeley, Calif. ''We tried to consider all aspects of things to try to get the thing to be as foolproof and as tamperproof as possible.'' Rouverol designed the Votomatic Voting System in the early 1960s with Joseph Harris, a colleague at the University of California at Berkeley. It was created to make use of IBM's porta-punch computer card system. When it was unveiled in 1963, then-Gov. Edmund G. Brown said it would ''revolutionize the system of voting in California.'' It did. But as we've all learned these past two weeks, nothing is foolproof. Officials in several Florida counties have spent days arguing over bits of paper divots called chads that may have kept the poll machines from properly counting votes. The wrangling has prevented the country from declaring its 43rd president. The conflict is most intense in Palm Beach County, where a specially designed ''butterfly ballot'' has been blamed for confusing some into voting for Reform Party nominee Patrick Buchanan instead of Democrat Al Gore. Rouverol and Harris, who died in 1985, had discussed the two-page format when they invented their machine. ''We were very set on not using both sides of the page, because things that might confuse people, we felt, should have been avoided,'' he said. ''The butterfly ballot? No way.'' County officials have maintained that the machines functioned properly, and that human error was to blame for any ballot irregularities. The company that manufactures the actual ballots is also deflecting blame. ''I don't believe that our ballots are at the center of it,'' said Hugh Webb, general manager of California-based Sequoia-Pacific Systems Corp. ''I think that the handling of and the scrutiny that's being given to them is more the attention-getter than the physical object itself.'' Rouverol said the machine's basic design has changed little since its introduction nearly 40 years ago. The standards for manufacturing the ballots also date from the 1960s. Rouverol, who turns 83 next week, has gotten away from the voting industry and is focusing more these days on sculpture and improving gearing systems. If Harris were alive, Rouverol said he would surely try to step in and help solve the problems. He said it's probably just as well that his perfectionist friend isn't around to see what is happening to his brainchild. ''He'd be spinning in his grave.''
and now we hear from the inventor of the machine himself
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 21:14:39 (EST)

My two cents are: Insulting incognito idiots' ideological ineptititude is intrinsically inspiring in identifying infinitely ineffective, immature, and inarticulate ignorami. It isn't intended inherent indifference, it is intendend implication indicating intellectual inability and incoherence in insight and interpretation. I'd investigate "insight" idiot.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 20:32:15 (EST)

My two cents are: I think I need some HGH. This election of Gore is getting to me.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 20:28:36 (EST)

My two cents are: dungpool divin doggie didn't deign decimating daily dullard's desperate demented derision duty. Dungpool divin doogie deemed daily dullard definitely deserving. Duping dopey does drive daily dullard daffy. Don't despair dimwit.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:58:56 (EST)

My two cents are: Methinks Linda Tripp posts here on occassion.

- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:49:41 (EST)

My two cents are: There's my anonymous critic, that was pretty good, three words starting with "d". Apparantly, an addled anonymous attempted approaching an attack aimed at an adversary - although admittedly and as always anonymous' anemic acrimony appears absurd and assinine. Analyze anonymous, analyze.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:43:39 (EST)

My two cents are: In a way, pete's a little more pathetic than glint. glinster has these idiot savant moments of brilliant humor and actually seems to have a life whereas pete ruminates on the talk radio shows he records for days and then scrawls an incoherent collage of the comments he's heard on a napkin as his own brilliance and sends it out as what is basically spam.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:31:21 (EST)

My two cents are: .....with your host, dungpool divin' doggie.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:28:31 (EST)

My two cents are: Glint likes to read things at face value. Especially things like the washington times. Ignores the hermenuetic and semiotic in favor of the literal. inference, the extrapolation of ideas, synthesis, induction, juxtaposition, comparative analysis, syllogism, critical thinking, argument, hegels dialectic, these are not the skills of an engineer. Give the guy a pocket protector, a calculator, and a unix manual. He'll tell you all he needs to know. The thinking part, thats what cut and pastes make up for.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:27:41 (EST)

My two cents are: So, are we now being trated to the pete and glint conspiracy theory loonball cut and paste hour?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:18:58 (EST)

My two cents are: no big deal whatever, you've still got a better driving record than george bush,
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:13:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Why not? Literary agents have to do something between book offers, don't they?
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:06:16 (EST)

My two cents are: So, Glint, are you saying Lucianne Goldberg reads this page?
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:03:49 (EST)

My two cents are: Interesting then how the Democrat AG said they would not issue opinions on election laws and then went ahead and gave one. Trust us, there are lawyers on all sides of this and obviously behind the Republican Secretary.

- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 19:01:41 (EST)

My two cents are: My money would be on the Attorney General knowing Fla. law a little better than the Sec. of State, who's office was considered by Fla. voters to be mainly ceremonial, which is why they voted to eliminate it.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:58:03 (EST)

My two cents are: Geeze, Glint, you accept at face value whatever she says. The attorney general says that, though as a matter of policy his office will under normal circumstances defer to hers in election matters, there is nothing in Fla. statutes that prohibits him from rendering a legal opinion in such matters.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:55:26 (EST)

My two cents are: Guess who's been reading this page? May I share some recently received e-mail: "Now there's the answer, for pity's sake. Why hadn't we seen it all along? Snaffle of Garthok - of course!!! Hang on. The best is yet to come (or not). Lucianne"
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:53:47 (EST)

My two cents are: "Might" not? Jesus! And what pray tell is your excuse for the sick people currently passing themselves off as Democrats in this fiasco? Brother!!!
Yo Momma!
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:47:43 (EST)

My two cents are: She might not be a crook but she definitely is a republican wonk who will be stopped tomorrow from giving Fla to Bush by the Fla Supreme Court. its over, like anon said earlier. She cut Bush's throat with her partisan showing yesterday.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:41:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Interesting arguments from Harris' brief: The Attorney General (Democrat) who told Palm Beach their recount was lawful later wrote, saying "After reviewing your correspondence, I regret to inform you that the Attorney General's Office does not have jurisdiction in this matter." Pregnant, swinging, or dimpled chads won't meet the criteria for declaring an error in vote tabulation: "An 'error in the vote tabulation' means a counting error in which the vote tabulation system fails to count properly marked marksense or properly punched ballots...The inability of a voting system to read an improperly marked marksense or improperly punched punchard ballot is not an error in the vote tabulation." 102.166(5) Looks like the law is on her side. Question is, is the Florida Supreme Court lawful or lawless?
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:41:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Kings of Chutzpah by Evan Gahr He vouches for O.J. Simpson, but Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz sure rushes to judgment with Katherine Harris. On CNN November 14, Dershowitz called the Florida secretary of state a "crook." He suggested -- falsely -- that she had laundered money some years back. Interviewed by TAS the next morning, Dershowitz reiterated his quite possibly slanderous remarks. "She is bought and paid for by the Bush campaign. If that's not the definition of a crook I don't know what is." But Harris's only crime is that she may keep Gore from "winning" Florida. The current election results give Bush a 300 vote lead in the sunshine state. The plain reading of the law -- plus a Florida judge's decision -- affords Harris wide latitude to certify those results, without further recounts. Last night, she rejected requests by four Florida counties for more time to modify their official results. She is everything we feared, groaned the non-partisan Geraldo Rivera on CNBC. He meant, of course, that Harris's decision proved her a partisan hack. Actually, Harris really is the left's worst nightmare. She is unswayed by their politics of personal destruction. Dershowitz's broadside against Harris bordered on character assassination. Dershowitz, who represents some of the voters who have filed lawsuits charging voting irregularities in Florida, declared "She's a crook. She's had all kinds of corruption allegations about expenditures of money. . . She's not one to exercise discretion" about which votes should be recounted. Giving her discretion is "not the American way." There's a new one -- a Republican called un-American by a liberal. These comments proved too much for anchor Wolf Blitzer, who corrected Dershowitz: "We want to point out some of the things you were saying were allegations." Dershowitz, however, wasn't about to stop. He mentioned an insurance company's donation to Harris's 1994 campaign for state senate. "She returned the $20,000 after it was proven she laundered it. That was proof." It was? Yesterday, the New York Times reported what actually happened: "Ms. Harris accepted more than $20,000 in contributions that prosecutors later said had been illegally 'bundled' together by executives of Riscorp, an insurance company based in Florida. Executives with the company, federal prosecutors charged, funneled money to Ms. Harris and several other Florida politicians through their employees, relatives and associates in order to evade laws limiting the amount of money that companies can donate to candidates. "Ms. Harris -- who had pressed for legislation favorable to Riscorp -- was never charged with any crime. The founder of Riscorp, William D. Griffin, pleaded guilty to a federal conspiracy charge and was sentenced to a five-month prison term." "'In hindsight,' she was quoted as saying by the Sarasota Herald-Tribune in 1997, 'I wish I had been more aware of how much money they were giving me.'" Well, that certainly rings more true than Gore's excuses for the Buddhist fundraiser. Dershowitz's key assertion -- that "it was proven" that Harris had laundered money -- was manifestly false. As Dershowitz and other defense lawyers endlessly remind us, there's a big difference between being accused and actually convicted. Dershowitz also likened Harris -- an elected official -- to a Republican "functionary." On the "Today Show" this morning, David Boies, the latest of Al Gore's lawyers to descend upon Florida, continued on that theme. He asked if "Harris stops the process now will anyone believe she did it for anything but a partisan purpose?" Two can play this game, counselor. If she allows the recounts to go forward will anyone believe she acted impartially, when it would certainly appear she had succumbed to the partisan wishes and high-pressure tactics of Democrats? By what measure is only Harris's reading of the law tainted by ideology? Are the Democrats who claim she must allow the recount to continue impartial? Can only Republicans be biased? Yes, Harris is a Republican and even campaigned for George W. Bush. But her obvious sympathies don't necessarily mean her forthcoming decision about the election is necessarily biased or otherwise illegitimate. To claim that she is animated by bias rather than a strict reading of the law is a self-serving assertion which Democrats have yet to prove. The real political functionaries here are liberal lawyers, who have descended upon the Sunshine state to handcraft the election results. Dershowitz tells TAS his remarks were entirely justified. "I was very consciously making a personal attack on her integrity. I see what's going on in Florida . It's a scam. " He says the controversy over her prior campaign contributions is relevant because it speaks to her integrity. But by what logic can he assert that money laundering allegations against Harris were proved? "Of course it was proved. She returned the $20,000. She admitted she took the money in error. The allegations of money laundering were proved. She got money laundered for her by Riscoff . She acknowledged" that. Returning money is by no means an admission of wrongdoing. Don't savvy defense lawyers remind us of that constantly? "I was not speaking as a defense attorney," Dershowitz now says. He wasn't? Dershowitz, who represents some of the voters who have filed lawsuits alleging voting irregularities in Florida, made his name as a celebrity defense attorney. His whole claim to fame is his defense of big name accused criminals. He certainly would not let a prosecutor play as fast and loose with the facts as he does now. But this is the man who (literally) wrote the book on chutzpah. His 1991 book by that title urges American Jews to have more of it. Whether they need more is debatable. But the GOP certainly does. How else to counter the naked demagoguery of a defense lawyer who pronounces the GOP guilty of crimes for which conceding the election is the only acceptable punishment? It's clear Al Gore has read Dershowitz book. Yesterday, he offered the Bush campaign a "compromise": Swell guy that he is, Gore 'would have Bush agree to everything Gore has so failed to obtain. Gore proposed the two sides agree to either a complete statewide recount or accept manual recounts in a handful of Florida counties. Gore also suggested that he and Bush meet in person "not to negotiate but to improve the tone of our dialogue in America." Notice the progression: Gore keeps quiet as Chris Lehane, his official spokesman, likens Harris to a "Soviet commissar" and his unofficial spokesman, Dershowitz, unilaterally convicts her of money-laundering. Then, the veep suddenly emerges to propose a meeting with Bush to foster civility, as if both men are equally culpable for the poisonous atmosphere or just above the fray. Sounds like an arsonist offering to discuss fire safety. Talk about chutzpah. Evan Gahr is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute.
democrats are real pieces of work
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:15:51 (EST)

My two cents are: I may have made a mistake. That document may be the response followed by Harris.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:10:19 (EST)

My two cents are: Pete, here's one. It's the petition by the Palm Beach Canvassing Board to Katherine Harris. http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/election2000/harrisresppbccb.pdf
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 18:08:32 (EST)

My two cents are: Pete, James Carville just gave a press conference where he said - and I quote - "I did not have crash relations - with that jet - the military jet carrying any absentee ballots". He went on to say though, "that's a great idea; let me run it by Christopher".
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:55:52 (EST)

My two cents are: Fla Supreme Court orders Recount can begin but counting them still has to be ruled on.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:52:39 (EST)

My two cents are: http://www.newsmax.com/images/stories/counties.jpg <-- Bush Country. Examining the counties around back home it looks like Gore had some "reservations" when it came to the vote. ;-)
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:48:58 (EST)

My two cents are: Last night, Comedy Central's keynote show, South Park, featured the best comtion in Florida. South Park isn't exactly a conservative favorite; its cutout characters are frequently held up as the apotheosis of televised filth, crass humor, and amoral excess � and deservedly so. However, despite the oft-displayed penchants of creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone for risqu� content and jokes about bodily functions, the show can occasionally be a forum for extremely amusing libertarian-minded political commentary. And often, the victims of the show's satirical sledgehammer are the caricatures of the worst the left has to offer � you haven't fully appreciated the strength of South Park's high-school humor approach until you've seen the now infamous "Mecha-Streisand" episode, which features a villainous Barbra, crushing the town as a mutated cybernetic giant. The show's protagonists, Colorado youngsters Eric Cartman, Kyle Brofslovki, Stan Marsh and Kenny McCormick, are forced to call on higher powers to help defeat the Godzilla-like monstrosity. Yesterday's episode was one of the best (and most political) story lines that Parker and Stone have put together in their four-year tenure. The main focus of the show wasn't the four boys, who've moved to the fourth grade, but on the antics of their younger siblings, who are just starting kindergarten. It's the first day of classes, and the student election pits the young boy Filmore versus Ike the Genius (formerly known as Ike the Baby). After the first round of ballots, and lengthy wavering from Flora, an undecided voter ("I vote for. I don't know," she says repeatedly), Ike wins the election by a margin of seven to six. Filmore's forces are furious, and they demand a recount: Teacher Mr. Garrison tells the students, "This is stupid. I've recounted 106 times, and it keeps coming out 7 to 6 � except for that one instance where it came out as 7 to 5, and that other time it came out as 12 to 14." Then, Filmore realizes that Charles, a swing voter, is home sick; he calls for the election to be put on hold until all the "absent-kid" votes are counted. The next day, the votes are finally tabulated, and the two boys are tied at seven. Ike's supporters cry fowl; the simple ballot is "too difficult for younger kids to understand," they say, and some of the younger kids might have checked the wrong box by mistake. The results remain tied, so Filmore asks his famous aunt, Rosie O'Donnell ("She's very active in politics!"), to come and supervise the school's "electoral crisis." O'Donnell arrives, declares the situation "legally and ethically complicated," and calls on a bevy of lawyers to help the children resolve the stalemate. The suits duke it out, as the children hoist hand-lettered signs declaring "Count em Again," "As Long As it Takes," and "Filmore is a Booger-Face!" Jesse Jackson even arrives in full rhyming fury, indignantly claiming that "The views of the African-American electorate were underrepresented," until Mr. Garrison informs him that there are only white students in the class. Then, suddenly, Filmore rises in front of the class and declares: "I concede the election. I don't want to play this game anymore, because it doesn't make sense."
In a Libertarian World, American Life Would Be Like Southpark
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:35:58 (EST)

My two cents are: I haven't seen it Glint, but I did read her rationale and she stood by her position. the lawyers alla rgued there had to be a machine or tabulation system error. So, that is her discretion. ANY reason is sufficient to defeat an arbitrary decision under normal legal principles. Gotta scoot. Aloha! Go Bush!
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:34:54 (EST)

My two cents are: Just heard James Carville crashed his civilian plane into a military jet carrying military absentee ballots back to Sarasota. Boy, these Dems are desperate.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:33:07 (EST)

My two cents are: Hi Pete. I was wondering if any [liberal] media outlet has made available the "parental excuses" they mailed into Kathleen Harris by 2:00 p.m. yesterday. At her news conference last night she said that copies were available for the press, but so far I have not seen any of the weak sister excuses published anywhere. Also, - anybody near a TV - are any of the court proceedeings getting any air time on C-SPAN? Thought Florida's courts were typically very liberal when it came to televising courtroom proceedings.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:31:08 (EST)

My two cents are: She sounds damn qualified and honest to me. But then again, this was a no brainer. All she had to do was follow the law.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:16:04 (EST)

My two cents are: I meant to say that I'm all about the great personal affluence. You just don't have to be greedy and take candy from the mouths of babes like C. Montgomery Burns, nor from those who really need what little money they have. Plenty to go around. // Love you too, dahling. We never had our tea and crumpets. Ta.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:10:21 (EST)

My two cents are: Katherine Harris, 43, is a member of one of Florida's wealthiest and most influential families. Her late grandfather, Ben Hill Griffin, was a citrus baron and state legislator, and one of the state's largest landowners. A graduate of Agnes Scott College, she attended graduate school at Harvard University and studied art at the University of Madrid. She's married to businessman Anders Ebbeson and has a teen-age daughter. The position Harris now holds, which Florida voters decided to eliminate starting in 2002, gives her oversight of the state's arts programs, libraries and trade issues, as well as elections. She was first elected to the office two years ago, following a bruising Republican primary fight, in which Gov. Bush endorsed her opponent. But she and the governor have been strong political allies ever since. She previously served four years as a state senator.
resume and pedigree from cbsnews
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:09:41 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, bad is as bad does and I have to concur that you are BAD ;-)
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:08:13 (EST)

My two cents are: So, I have to go to driver's remedial school now, because the stupid Massachusetts law says I'm a bad driver. Waa waa waa. It's such bullshit. Unlike MK, though, I'm perfectly willing to pay my dues, because I fucked up. I'm just glad I don't have to go through the rigmarole of reinstating my suspended license. I suppose, since I started with an MK thought, and I've come full circle, ending with an MK thought, I'll bid you all adieu until the morrow. :-)
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:01:48 (EST)

My two cents are: Will there be any relief for the partial birth abortions of the pregnant chads?
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 17:00:24 (EST)

My two cents are: Jesus, 'Toine.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:58:27 (EST)

My two cents are: That's all good, but I actually don't mind the idea of great personal affluence. I told y'all I want to be Bill Gates when I grow up. If I ever become Bill Gates, though, don't worry, my workers will be the happiest workers ever, because they'll be very well taken care of.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:57:09 (EST)

My two cents are: An' I gots'ta bet braid yo' gas jet peeks likes some pink rose bud too, no? Wank, wank.
sniff test inspecta'
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:56:51 (EST)

My two cents are: It's really a reference to a preference for a socialized democracy whatever, not a totalitarian regime. still room for individual affluence but not to excess, corporations pay more taxes to provide national healthcare, food, services etc. France, Sweden, norway, all countries with higher standards of living and lower infant mortality.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:52:35 (EST)

My two cents are: gotta run myself. later.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:49:09 (EST)

My two cents are: The unprecedented aftermath of the 2000 presidential election has prompted heated debates about how the next president could be selected. The extraordinarily close Florida vote, and the ongoing state and federal lawsuits it has spawned, create the possibility that the state's 25 electoral votes would still be up for grabs on December 18, when the presidential electors must gather to vote in their respective state capitals. In this case, the Constitution indicates that the Electoral College cannot select the next president. Fortunately, far from setting off any constitutional crisis, this development would merely trigger an alternative and equally constitutional mechanism � the choice of the president by the House of Representatives. There has been much talk in the Al Gore camp that, if Florida electors are unable to vote and he still leads in the Electoral College albeit without an absolute majority of 270 votes, the vice president should win the presidency. Indeed, the Gore campaign has apparently been recruiting law professors nationwide who � with visions of judgeships dancing in their heads � have eagerly embraced the notion that a simple majority of the voting electors would suffice under the Constitution to elect our next president. Yet, constitutional text, the record of the 1787 Constitutional Convention, and subsequent history clearly mandate that only an "absolute majority" of the entire Electoral College, rather than a "simple majority" of the electors actually voting, can elect the president. The relevant language in the Constitution can be found in Article II and the 12th Amendment...............
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111600a.shtml
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:47:55 (EST)

My two cents are: See, I don't like that term necessarily, "socialist," because no one's trying to turn the US into Cuba or China. Are we taking the word back and reappropriating it to assert our place in society, like "queer" and "nigga?" Right on, then.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:47:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Good for you crynic. but you're still a SAP.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:46:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Then again, that doesn't cut it either, because I'm a capitalist, I just have a heart about it. // Yeah, 'Toine, my farts do smell like roses. :-)
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:44:51 (EST)

My two cents are: the SAP needs a rigid map to organize his world here. he searches for metaphors to help him wrestle a reality that is somewhat intangible into neat little boxes. The kind of guy that was always chosen last for teams at recess. you know, a SAP.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:44:03 (EST)

My two cents are: "mutually interchangable socialist borgs?" That's more like it. I'd say "mutually interchangable socialist cyberentities."
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:43:57 (EST)

My two cents are: Now that's a good boy sapdog. That apology to Whatever was a classy thing to do. I salute you. Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?//// Y'all have a great evening. Really gone this time.///Oh, sapdog, FYI, I pay 100% health insurance for all my empoyees. Bad idea fiscally, but it's the right thing to do. And no one forces me to. That's the key.
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:43:43 (EST)

My two cents are: Whut's wit' all dese-he'ah smiley face shit all ova' everytthin', Whateva'? Yo' ass fartin' sweet gas o' sump'n?
yo' pale white knight
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:41:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, thank you for giving us a saps-eye view of fornigate crynic. Unfortunately you miss the point that socialists have no class structure, no hierarchy, we are egalitarian. we are mutually interchangeable socialist borgs.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:40:44 (EST)

My two cents are: You don't believe that anyone here is convicted (in their beliefs,) loyal or honest other than Papi?
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:38:01 (EST)

My two cents are: I wouldn't call us proteges, either. Makes us sound like we're trainees, when we've been here longer than you have. :-)
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:37:07 (EST)

My two cents are: I sort of get this picture that the crynic is now driving to the laundromat to count the quarters, seething in traffic about being called a sap.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:37:04 (EST)

My two cents are: My apologies Whatever. Should've said protege. The liberal relationships are classic on this page. Mentors = sapdog, Hohum, Anon Proteges = Whatever, E./// And John? Well John is just John. John = conviction, honesty, loyal.
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:35:12 (EST)

My two cents are: Of course for a sap like the crynic, being productive means making ten bucks an hour off a guy without health insurance he's paying five. On the other hand, the socks were a taxable transaction. And apologies if you were offended whatever.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:34:55 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, dude, you know I respond to everything, as long as it's still the morning/afternoon show. :-)
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:34:29 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, dude, you know I respond to everything, as long as it's still the morning/afternoon show. :-)
Whateer
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:34:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Oh yaih? An' how many brotha's dun did yo' ass say yo' ass have?
yo' otha' brotha'
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:33:39 (EST)

My two cents are: I don't think it was a deflection crynic, whatever is her own person, I didn't expect a response from her on that one, the point was to chide you and she knows that. Have a sappy day.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:31:18 (EST)

My two cents are: Secondly, there are those of us who can be as productive as possible without feeling the need to announce our productivity.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:27:25 (EST)

My two cents are: First off, nobody's a follower here, least of all myself.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:26:02 (EST)

My two cents are: Poor deflection sapdog. And using one of your followers in the process. Pathetic. You owe Whatever an apology. You remind me of that other famous Texas idiot, David Koresch. If you need some help in creating a smooth transition to another topic, just ask. We'll be glad to help. If it's getting a bit warm for you here, you can always pop in one of those porno flicks. You know, the ones you watched in prison. Anyway, try to have a pleasant day. It's time for me to get back to being as productive as possible. Enjoy!
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:24:53 (EST)

My two cents are: Oh, in a cemetary? Well, why didn't you say so. The answer is, uh..........what was the question? My fave type of cemetery picnic food? <> Pete and Crynic, don't be too hard on ydog. Remember after all he's a liberal and so it not to blame. It was his parents fault. After all they were the ones who wheeled his crib down to the war protest, forced our matee to batten down the missen mast on the USS Physicque, and broke protocol by catching the missus picking pocketbooks when mum shat her drawers full and left them on the nightstand.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:24:15 (EST)

My two cents are: Continuing the idiot sap crynics parade of illogic, we find that hitler is of course a hero because he carried a national election.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:21:42 (EST)

My two cents are: I guess according to crynic, since george only carried half of his brothers state, Jeb is only half trustworthy? crynic's a real genius isn't he guys?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:20:23 (EST)

My two cents are: So the point of your argument is now that a president must carry his own state? Brilliant logicical conclusion sapman. Let's amend the constitution crynic. Lets also add "stupid" to "sensitive asshole"
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:18:14 (EST)

My two cents are: Well crynic, I guess your sapdom really can be distilled into the concept of your being a "sensitive asshole" a difficult thing to be for sure. Plenty of inner conflict combined with the worst possible mixture for getting along with others.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:12:58 (EST)

My two cents are: Like it or not dog, you are associated with the Tenn vote. In terms you can understand, you put all your marbles, your confidence, and vote on a guy who isn't trustworthy enough to carry his own state. That says something about your thought process. Don't be paranoid cowpoke. I'm not trying to insult you. I would like to help you. But I'm sure you've heard that from the doctors. It would be illogical to associate you with the cowboys losing - I agree. The fact is you support a loser. And, like Gore, you don't know when to say "enough is enough". Good luck.
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:10:28 (EST)

My two cents are: I tend to prefer brothers, anyway. No offense, of course.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:08:39 (EST)

My two cents are: Crynic, I came up with a link to "saps at sea", an old laurel and hardy flick.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:07:48 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, see, I try not to go there, since I'm taken and all. :-)
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:07:23 (EST)

My two cents are: Of course he doesn't need it to win, crynic, that's what we have an electoral college for. Too bad, he's the first one to perform such a fraudulent feat since His Fraudulence I back in the 1800's. udulence I back in the 1800's. Too bad it'll also mean that he'll be a caretaker President, and all those guys will have to keep their money in Turks and Caicos, because nothing's getting done until 2004 when the real President takes over.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:06:31 (EST)

My two cents are: Hey whatever, you've obviously noticed crynic has had the hots for you for awhile. I know you've been kind to the guy, but could you ever do a sap like that? I mean what if he like broke down afterward in tears of gratitude?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:05:55 (EST)

My two cents are: I will be peekin' forward t' da damn day when mah swingin' chads meet yo' goaty chin as yo' mout' be chewin' mah arm, 'espense.
yo' faithful lovin' brotha'
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:03:19 (EST)

My two cents are: NEWSFLASH TO WHATEVER - - George W. Bush doesn't need the popular vote, nor does he need help from his brother. He will be confrmed the victor of Florida and winner of enough electoral votes to become our next President. Can you say W-I-N-N-E-R?///Sapdog, exactly what are the current predictions for the maritime industry? (this should be entertaining).
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 16:01:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah crynic, you're the sap. I don't know whats got your panties bunched today but its just like I said. You're reaching, straining here today...somehow attempting to insult me because I live in Texas where bush is governor, associate me with the tennesee vote? It's illogical crynic, moving from these general issues to something that applies to me as an individual? non-sequiter. Like I'm stupid if the cowboys lose on sunday. You're looking for someone to lash out at today crynic, your a sap just waiting to explode and you're trying to ask me to set you off with the necrobeasty thing. I can see you there just all welled up at the keyboard like a lump of trembling jello waiting to see which way to crumble when you let loose and displace whatever's really bothering you today. It's sad crynic, it's, well, very sap-like.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:59:50 (EST)

My two cents are: the internet that owes its existance to Gore has voted for Bush by a large margin. Of course, it doesn't say who these individuals are. We know they are wonks in the fashion of Pete and Glint. The daisy chain duo.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:59:12 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah, then she was talking some shit, and I challenged her on it and she couldn't even fathom the fact that my uppity Negroid ass would have the temerity to step to her. Her favorite line was "get a grip."
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:55:08 (EST)

My two cents are: May I remind you that Gore may not have carried his own state, but His Fraudulence is taking this election without the popular vote and with the help or non-help of his bitter little brother.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:51:28 (EST)

My two cents are: The one I remember about maria was how she said she did a great thing for society by paying a poor black woman from the projects minimum wage with no benefits as a part-time employee in her laundromat. Specifically I think she said "it was a great arrangement for everyone"
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:49:56 (EST)

My two cents are: So dog, I'm the sap? Consider this - who lives in the same state of what you consider the anti-christ? who backed a lying liberal loser who couldn't even carry HIS OWN STATE? who feels obliged to inform strangers how good he feels when he buys a pair of $9 socks? who supports a rapist and obstructor of justice? who vacations in the in-bred swampland? who lives in a glass house? you do, super sap. I also suspect you are a closet bestial necrophiliac. ever bang a dead cockerspaniel? close, huh?
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:49:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah, sucked to be her.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:48:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah, Maria, she was pretty fun. I miss her too and we only ragged her about being a self-serving self-aggrandizing self-centered kapitalist bitch. Must have had some deep insecurities.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:46:16 (EST)

My two cents are: You know crynic, mental health is a serious issue. In fact, the World Health Organization predicts that unipolar depression will be the second leading cause of disability worldwide by 2020. Predictions for the maritime industry are not good either.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:43:15 (EST)

My two cents are: And yes, you guys do trash E to no end. Much worse than anyone saying Katharine's pictures make her look like Leona Helmsley, which they do. Fortunately, she's not so thin-skinned that she can't take it and put you guys in her place, unlike some people. Remember Maria? Poor thing couldn't take the heat.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:40:16 (EST)

My two cents are: Yes, I would like Jeb to say something. Say anything, for Christ sake. All he's doing by letting Katherine Harris take all the heat is making folks think more and more that he had something to do with this botched election. Of course, no one will take his denial of any wrongdoing seriously, but at least he would have done SOMETHING. If she's going down, he should do the right thing and go down with her.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:37:46 (EST)

My two cents are: so I'm confused, is this faux outrage over fucking republican women in general or fucking in cemetaries in general or specifically about fucking republican women in cemetaries?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:37:10 (EST)

My two cents are: You're right dog, we can be amicable. But it doesn't alter the fact that you are obviously unbalanced and in need of immediate care. This is one public assistance invoice I'll gladly pick up. Hop in your Yugo and hightail it down to the clinic. Good luck.
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:35:21 (EST)

My two cents are: You know, I kind of wonder if the crynic is really just that thin-skinned or if the sap just shows up here when's on the verge of a hissy or a meltdown. I mean its like about five posts max and the poor sap crumbles one way or the other and disappears for a week. Sometimes its disproportionate rage, sometimes heartstrings of sorrow. But either way, the sap always seems to have a pretty thin veneer, posts about five times and crumbles.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:30:03 (EST)

My two cents are: you have many weaknesses pete. Now I understand the gutters.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:25:19 (EST)

My two cents are: like pete could ever bother e.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:23:25 (EST)

My two cents are: Why dog, because I have a weakness for green eyes? The biggest problem is I must leave agains for 3 days and will be away from computer. Ugh.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:23:14 (EST)

My two cents are: You've really been at your best here today pete, that was one for the books!
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:20:50 (EST)

My two cents are: Yes, gnat, as an experiment in liberal tactics, she was. Now aren't you glad you are not the recipient of this usual liberal tactic?
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:18:38 (EST)

My two cents are: Het Glint, perhaps this is the proverbial Y2K glitch in Florida ballot counting? Could it also be a solar flare? Nah, I guess its just dem Dems.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:15:46 (EST)

My two cents are: I guess I could clean up my act and surf the net looking for accident and morgue photos.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:05:51 (EST)

My two cents are: Crynic, my friend, we can indeed be adversaries and amicable at the same time. However, I seem to have nudged you over the edge again. You can't blame me for this crynic. I don't know why you are such a sap, but you are, you're a sap. It's like you've got this unpredictable kneejerk countenance that appears every time you bump something with that heart on your sleeve. A sap, crynic, a sap. Geez, and PEW said I had a glass jaw. you take the cake.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:02:46 (EST)

My two cents are: Interesting observation in regards to trashing a female. Who gets trashed more than E on this site. I seem to recall some very explicit trash thrown her way.
gnat
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:02:18 (EST)

My two cents are: Thankyou gnat.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:56:37 (EST)

My two cents are: Looks like ydog hit that mommy defense oedipal nerve right on target to me.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:55:54 (EST)

My two cents are: Hillary's thighs are also irrelevant.
gnat
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:55:20 (EST)

My two cents are: The dead socialist scratched his head and pulled a smoothworn savinelli out of the pocket of his coururoy jacket. This one would take some pondering. All the way back to durkheim at least so as to lay a framework for discussion by begining with the concept of a collective consciousness. The thought trails around into Freud's collective unconscious of course, but also to Mead and Ruth Benedict and the concept of a national personality. So moving away from Durkheim and into the collective unconscious, which is now that he thinks of it really more Levi-Strauss than Freud (the Freud piece fits in later). All the shadows on the cave wall began to look different, the impeachment hearings, the desire to recall the 1992 election. What manner of thinking is this he wondered. Could it be a national scale oedipal complex, some vast unifying underlying mental illness that defines the rightwings desire to kill father and assume his role? Yes, he thought. this is it, a presidential oedipal complex. All the retchies of the world are united by this sick oedipal fascination with Clinton, for a retchie, it's the tie that binds. Even pete's visualation fits nicely here, pete visualizes "father" as "penis". So what you have is this situation where freud's subconscious (I finally got that right) oedipal complex is echoed around and takes root in right wing interpretation and affinity borne of dislike for clinton, which now we can see, was never universal among the wretched, but a unification of their personal oedipal issues.
thefool
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:54:32 (EST)

My two cents are: Ydog, you are one worthless piece of vulgar, socialist shit. It's scary that a demented fool like you walks the same streets as our children.Next time you meet with your parole officer, set up an appt. with the state provided shrink. And hurry. Take your medication and please don't hurt the children. You sick fuck.
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:53:35 (EST)

My two cents are: You know what dog, that is just simply uncalled for. You should be ashamed. Is this what you devolve America too? Which women you can rapre, trash and destroy who happen to disagree with your troupe? Some America. I'd be worried if I were a Democrat and still ahd some sliver of conscience listening to the sort of tripe emanating from your ilk. Confirms that no Democrat should ever be allowed to be in power for any reason.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:45:43 (EST)

My two cents are: In a cemetary glint, which one would you rather fuck in a cemetary?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:40:02 (EST)

My two cents are: It was a sticky situation alright. There I was, a foreign engineer, thousands of miles from home in an arab bathroom with spooge all over the front of my trousers. Very sticky. I told them it was soap.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:38:46 (EST)

My two cents are: who cares what the pasty skinned europeans and dirt skinned islanders on the other side of this rock are thinking?
let 'em grow their own damned hanging chads
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:38:30 (EST)

My two cents are: Glint, would you rather fuck her or linda tripp? try not to equivocate
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:36:35 (EST)

My two cents are: I think Jeb Bush did the right thing to recuse himself. What would you have him do, start taking sides publically so the Dems would have another lightning rod to rally around? No, he's doing the right thing to do nothing since anything he could do would be improper since it would have the appearance of a conflict of interest. The Florida Sec'y of State is also doing the right thing. Conducting the election and consulting with lawyers familiar with Florida law in the sticky situations. It isn't after all a beauty contest so her taste in makeup doesn't even rise to the level of irrelevant.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:33:38 (EST)

My two cents are: Actually pete, it was your side that presented a stuttering miles silverberg yammering about how a manual recount is unconstitutional.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:31:17 (EST)

My two cents are: Trust me, whatever, your guys' positions are being trashed in court. There is no reason to fight liberal spin in the media. The law will take care of this. Republicans are more interested in doing their duty than subverting the process. If you are that concerned, then perhaps you should do something to stop the attacks from your own side of this. In my view, I would not respond either because the attacks are moronic.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:20:46 (EST)

My two cents are: It's not just Dems who are trouncing her. Hell, she's getting the shaft from all over the world, dude. I don't even live in Florida, thus, my "support" does nothing to ease her burden. My point was that Jeb's "support" would help, yet, he's too much of a yellow-bellied chickenshit to step up to the plate and act like a man, much less a Governor.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:09:15 (EST)

My two cents are: So, why isn't he out there defending his reputation and hers? Everyone's name is obviously being dragged through the mud. He's the governor, the top officer in the state of Florida. He needs to come out and take a stand and defend that woman and himself. Otherwise, he comes out of this looking like a weasely, sniveling little bitch who's days in the Governor's Mansion are numbered.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:02:44 (EST)

My two cents are: Whatever, if you feel such sympathy for the woman, perhaps you can do your part to defend her rather than enable democrats to "trounce" her. the only reason it is happening is because liberals are doing it and allowing it. But this is to be expected to happen to any woman who goes agaisnt the Democrat status quo. There are many former Dem women littering the decks from the trashing by other liberals.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:00:58 (EST)

My two cents are: Jeb issued no edicts, so there was no reason to wash his hands. The SOS simply applied the law as she is required to do. If the Florida Supreme Court wants to change the law, as I expect they will since all of them are Democrats, maybe you will get around impeachmnent again.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:58:29 (EST)

My two cents are: Even Bill Clinton had an eensy-weensy, teeny-tiny, inky-binky bit of valor when he lied about his relationship with Monica. He was trying to protect himself, yes, but he was also trying to protect his family. Jeb's just covering his own ass. Classless fool.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:55:18 (EST)

My two cents are: I bet you Jeb's one of those bitter about living in the shadow of his big brother types. Must be a real piece of work in real life.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:49:12 (EST)

My two cents are: I mean, I understand that she's a grown woman, and she's handling the situation as best as she can. But seriously, she's out there getting trounced, and it's all Jeb's fault. You'd think he'd be out there, defending her, defending himself, trying to stop any aspersions being cast on his administration. But nooo. He's out there assuming the crash position. To let that woman take the fall for him, and to allow such aspersions to be cast on her, as well as the rest of his administration, it's beyond shady. It's valorless.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:44:41 (EST)

My two cents are: Recusing himself or not, he's still shady. He's shady! That's all there is to it. His career is dead like fried chicken.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:36:04 (EST)

My two cents are: What, he washed his hands like Pilate?
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:34:58 (EST)

My two cents are: I mean, what an asshole. He's going to let that poor woman Katharine Harris take all the heat for his fuck-up?
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:34:29 (EST)

My two cents are: Jeb recused himself. Stay with the program, dear.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:33:39 (EST)

My two cents are: I think the Congress should pass a bill banning partial birth chadpoles. Those scissors are murder on Republicans. At least they aborted 26,000 Republican ballots in Duval county before the trimester deadline. Same old same old.
Pete�
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:32:47 (EST)

My two cents are: Has anyone heard from Jeb yet, by the way? Is he still laying low from the 5-0 until the heat dies down or what?
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:28:59 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah, that was the thing. He had her up there in front of the world, proclaiming that her husband was innocent. Man, I figured she'd be kicking his ass all over the White House. That's just unbelievable. So, I guess if I were to catch my friend's husband out gallavanting, I'd have to hire a third party to shamelessly bare all his business, without conscience or notion of responsibility, and only after she'd came out to her friends and family proclaiming his innocence, or shut my mouth. Well, if she were my enemy, I'd do that. I wouldn't want to cause such suffering to someone I hold dear.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:23:51 (EST)

My two cents are: If it wasn't for the position he held it could be worked past but he made a spectacle of himself before the world. /// The courts are going to determine this election, not the lady bitch from Tallahassee.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:18:54 (EST)

My two cents are: You know, I heard how, during Hillary's acceptance speech, she was flanked by Chelsea and some other dude. Bill was on the other side of Chelsea. Hillary was holding up the hands of Chelsea and this other strange man. Also, Bill had put his hand on her shoulder, and she moved away or shooed him away, kind of conspicuously. I thought that they had kissed and made up, and in a way, I was starting to get happy that this whole scandal didn't break up their marriage. However; I guess I was right all along, that there are some things that you just can't excuse, within the confines of a marriage. I say this, because I read this article in this woman's magazine, in which the author suggests that if you see your friend's husband gallavanting with another woman, that it's best to adopt the "don't ask, don't tell" policy of the military, because what ends up happening is that the couple forms a united front against you. Also, most women, when confronted with the possibility, won't choose to divorce their husbands, because they don't want to "give him up" for some bimbo, when they're the wife and they're the ones with the life built around the philanderer. I was starting to think, maybe I would forgive my husband if he were to cheat on me. However; you just can't get over certain things. Bill went way past cheating.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 13:06:47 (EST)

My two cents are: Hey crynic. Don't worry, he will. I just feel bad for all those guys who wanted their tax cut, school vouchers and their SS money up front, because they ain't getting shit.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:49:22 (EST)

My two cents are: Good Morning everyone. Hard to believe this election isn't finalized. The Gore campaign continues - to no avail. Actually, this bizarre situation is healthy in the long run. It'll force election reform - ie similar ballot format throughout, nationally accepted counting and recounting methods and protocol. The big prize though, is the civic, legal, political, and social lessons unfolding every hour. Journalism and law students are getting unprecedented live action to comtemplate. As usual, the media is muddying the waters./// It's high time for the soon to be former VP to belly up to the bar and concede like the statesman he's attempting to portray.
the crynic
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:46:30 (EST)

My two cents are: http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20001116/mdf131437.jpg
dumb 'n' dumber
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:36:09 (EST)

My two cents are: I suppose they should fire her makeup artist along with Jeb in '04, or is it '02?
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:34:29 (EST)

My two cents are: "The chads are falling outand are being swept under the rug." Tough shit!! When a chad is barely hanging by one corner after it has been punched by a stylus it will fall out. so what? It doesnt change the vote unless it was one that flopped back over the hole when it was entered in the machine to be counted and therefore wasn't counted. The chads that are fully connected will NOT fall out unless they are first broken with a stylus. RECOUNT THE VOTES>
Sen Bradley
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:34:22 (EST)

My two cents are: Somebody stick a sock in Baker's mouth.
T Daschle
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:27:01 (EST)

My two cents are: Marjorie Claprod says to recount. Sen Kerry D Mass
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:25:26 (EST)

My two cents are: My husband told me I should sign that for him. D Eisenhower
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:22:54 (EST)

My two cents are: I could never support the governor of the State I grew up in. He is working against the Constitution I fought to protect and defend,So Help Me GOD.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:21:36 (EST)

My two cents are: She's not so bad: http://foxnews.com/election_night/111600/images/trail.jpg Much prettier and better poised than the ham-thighed Senator elect from NY.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:19:05 (EST)

My two cents are: I'd feel pretty bad if I were on the cover of every major newspaper looking like young Leona Helmsley. Her millions of dollars can't erase that image. She's pretty too, which makes it so much worse.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:16:43 (EST)

My two cents are: "We have a responsibility to the men and women of this great nation who have sacrificed their lives in defense of the Constitution of the United States to protect the votes of the people they gave their lives for." G.Washington... Recount the votes.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:15:17 (EST)

My two cents are: "We have a responsibility to respect the law and not seek to undermine it where we do not like the outcome."
Dubya
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:10:02 (EST)

My two cents are: She's a millionaire bitch. what's to be sorry for?
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:06:47 (EST)

My two cents are: Yeah, I feel really sorry for that woman, Katherine Harris. My God, you should have seen the picture of her on the front cover of the Boston Globe yesterday. She looked like Tammy Faye meets Morticia.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 12:01:40 (EST)

My two cents are: After two days of being slimed, called a communist, accused of criminal conspiracy and had her make-up skills savaged, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris still had more hanging chads than a lot of her male associates. We are older and wiser now and the "Nuts and Sluts" smears no longer resonate. Upholding the law is a beautiful thing to see.You go, girl.
L.G.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 11:56:38 (EST)

My two cents are: THE war within Al Gore's own soul - between the one-time divinity student and the ruthless pol - was on display in his fascinating words last night. On the one hand, the statement he delivered at 6:30 p.m. was everything one could have asked for in a potential president. The speech represented a welcome end to the weird happy-face spin that Democrats have been putting on the current situation, which they have refused to acknowledge is a crisis of leadership. On the other hand, the ruthless pol showed up in one sneaky and dishonest word he uttered: "Dade." He said that the manual recounts should be completed in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade counties. But Dade county has voted not to do a manual recount after its sample test of three precincts turned up only four votes for the vice president - and its canvassing board is being sued by the state Democratic Party to force its members to change their minds. In essence, then, the vice president used his speech to pressure the canvassing board in Dade to reverse its decision - another example of the way he and his people have used lofty rhetoric as a cover for their own, utterly politicized ends. The essential argument of the Democrats is that their voters were too stupid to cast their ballots correctly. This is an insulting claim to make of your own voters, but evidently the Gore electorate has chosen not to take offense.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 11:55:42 (EST)

My two cents are: Good morning, Glint. How are you doing today? I have to go to driver's remedial school today and tomorrow.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 11:51:11 (EST)

My two cents are: Good morning, Coppertone. Good to see your cheery words today. Hope John is feeling well today.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 11:47:35 (EST)

My two cents are: Morning. You guys were right, I do miss MK. I wonder what he's thinking right now.
Whatever
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 10:53:31 (EST)

My two cents are: When I worked an oil rig in the Gulf a couple of planes collided. A few weeks later deep sea divers retreived the ejection seats with pilots inside full of lobsters and crabs who had been feasting on the pilots. The divers gathered the things up and took them home and had a fresh shellfish and lobster bake. Why Not pecans?
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 10:12:17 (EST)

My two cents are: This morning's news reports that Kathleen Harris received two death threats last night. Clearly, it is time to take the Animal Farm back from the socialist-jacket-clad pigs wallowing in the bespecled white farm house.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 10:07:18 (EST)

My two cents are: "...Oh, and one more thing my life-challenged friends, His Highmaster Bill Dalley said to thank you on bahalf of Vice President Gore for all your votes."
Overheard in an Austin Graveyard
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 10:04:20 (EST)

My two cents are: I'm not sure what the fear factor is here. Is it the issue of "grave robbing?" Here's what I'd do. Enter the graveyard walk to the center and in your loudest voice (you want them to be able to hear you in the back row) say, "Ahm inter'st'd in hahvestin' this hea' crop of duhlectawble meat nuts. Eeyun thayat ruhgahd I heahby offuh y'all first dibs. Takes all ya'll wants, and I'll be back heah tomorrow with a stayack of umpty chicken buckets to collect them yummy nuts. Good day to ya'll now."
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:56:18 (EST)

My two cents are: later gang. good day to all.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:52:22 (EST)

My two cents are: Think I'll cook some borscht this weekend, really good with a glob of sour cream. probably wear my socialist voting jacket to dine in. Going to try and quit smoking again.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:51:11 (EST)

My two cents are: That was me glint. BTW E, do you get the leg of lamb with bone in or already deboned? I warned you glint!
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:46:45 (EST)

My two cents are: E, please post more of your open e-mails to George Bushj's web page! Thanks.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:44:15 (EST)

My two cents are: OK glint, very funny, but you miss the point, how would it look to be picking fruit in a cemetary? This isn't frivolous in the sense that I'm trying to explore the semiotics represented, life, death etc. in what is a confusing interplay. I asked a co-worker who said he's have to think about it, and eventually said he couldn't answer it.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:41:52 (EST)

My two cents are: I sent an email to George Bush suggesting a giant furuncle would make him appear more human. Apparently he agreed
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:38:41 (EST)

My two cents are: "Fiddling, bending, and prodding" of ballots all under the watchful eyes of Republican observors with pokers up their asses.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:37:31 (EST)

My two cents are: Well, If I were in doubt about being able to pick them up I'd start by lifting a few weights. Nothing too strenuous, a can of frozen concentrate in each hand should do. I think they're safe to eat but only after their shells have been removed. <> Looks like it's time for the Ydog/E hour.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:26:20 (EST)

My two cents are: There's this cemetary near here. has alot of pecan trees. I've wondered if I could actually eat those pecans, even pick them up.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:20:28 (EST)

My two cents are: Or the victim of a non-victimless crime. You got it. <> Bush called Gore's bluff so now Gore's skin is ripping open as the lawyers pour out. Sort of like the Oogey Boogey man in Tim Burton's "Nightmare Before Christmas."
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:19:34 (EST)

My two cents are: SNL stuff was great. This Harris thing is a tragedy for Bush, and so was his rejection of an all-state recount. Bushies won't count the votes because they'll go against Junior, plain and simple. Junior equals balls-free coward.*
E <*conservative tactic>
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:19:12 (EST)

My two cents are: How about a picture of miss bunnyfucker coming out of the video store at 1 am with 2 grocery bags full of tapes?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:17:59 (EST)

My two cents are: Maybe you could volunteer to be crime scene photographer for this new carroll county militia Glint. I bet they even give you a magnetic flashing light for the top of the mini-van and a little id card that lets you cross the yellow tape. Could be fun, you could take the kids.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:16:14 (EST)

My two cents are: Of course glint, how else could you keep a hand free for coffee and still be able to shoot the prepetrator of a victimless crime?
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:10:56 (EST)

My two cents are: Looks like new heros and villains. The former of course is Katherine Harris. The latter includes Bill Daley, Carol Roberts, and Irving Slosberg. <> Ydog, thanks for the heads up about the citizen debuty training. Do I need to bring myown gun? I would just love to be able to step into the local Dunkin' and stick my service revolver through the holes of about half a dozen glazed and carry them that way back to the black & white blaring and blinking in code 3 from the parking lot.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 09:07:19 (EST)

My two cents are: I thought snl's "odd couple" was great.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:50:05 (EST)

My two cents are: Glint, Adam only sprung us ahead to move us further from Hawaii and pete. Do I have to explain everything to you? Now, by the time pete starts posting, the sun has moved off of the shady side of Kilimanjaro.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:48:49 (EST)

My two cents are: Did you see the new Southpark where they're voting for class president. After the count and recount the kid who lost bawled and pounded his desk until they did another recount. And then another recount. And another. He still lost.
Cartman
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:48:00 (EST)

My two cents are: Morning Glint. Maybe they could send in Linda Tripp.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:46:04 (EST)

My two cents are: Years ago, I sent senior Bush an email suggesting we take military action against Saddam. I copied Scharzkopf and Powell on that one. And these weren't even open letters!!!!
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:44:39 (EST)

My two cents are: 4 billion years ago I suggested the concept of the universe to God. Here we are. My two cents are: I dropped a note to Alan Greenspan in September suggesting that he continue using his best judgement in making Federal Reserve decisions. He too is following my advice.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:41:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Last week I sent an email to Bush advising that he spend some time at his ranch, looks like he did.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:39:41 (EST)
My two cents are: The fornigate clock is now off by two hours. Yoohoo Adam, you sprung ahead instead of falling back.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:39:16 (EST)
My two cents are: I sent an email to president clinton advising that he remain in office until the inaguration. Looks like he's following my advice.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:38:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Good morning. I'm afraid it may be necessary to call in the state police to stop the hand count. With the fiddling, bending, and prodding going on, the ballots are becoming tainted, calling any further counts be they mechanical or manual in doubt. <> Bush wasn't sporting any McCaine like bandaids last night during his short address from Austin.
Glint
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:37:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Sound's like there's not enough air in the soccer ball...
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:36:48 (EST)
My two cents are: And Sisyphus pushed. He pushed the rock. Harder and harder, further and further up the sloping incline of the bell curve. Under the curve, there was a cave, wherein shadows of reality danced merrily on the walls. Suddenly, a shot rang out.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:35:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:30:54 (EST)
My two cents are: In a sense, from my somewhat distanced perspective, the election is a bust at this point. The very results have fallen within the "margin of error" and we will never know who won. What is happening now is a devolution into the realm of conspiracy theorists (on both sides) of the soviet weather control cadre. For pete and glint, this is the equivalent of a loonball nirvana, the tailends of the bellcurve now distorted and magnified into bimodal peaks at either end of the distribution.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:30:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, here's one you can sign up for...Sheriff's office to train more citizens The Carroll County sheriff's office is looking for another 15 citizens interested in participating in a community policing training session with area law enforcement agents. The free 16-hour program, which is put on by the Mid-Atlantic Regional Community Policing Institute, is intended to improve communication and cooperation between citizens and police to help reduce crime. The training will take place from 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. on Nov. 28 and 29 at Carroll Community College in Westminster. Participants will receive instruction on improving communication, ethics, problem solving and setting up partnerships. ``Instead of citizens thinking police have to solve all the problems, the citizens work with police to identify problems and develop solutions to these problems,''....wanna donut? .
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 07:52:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning yall. E, check your mail. And one quip out of you about this brieghtly and we swear we'll post a quarter mile of recipe tips with excerpts from das kapital mixed in. Survived the day at pothaole yesterday. Largely given up on fiending about the election, maybe because of pothaole, maybe just media fatigue.
ydog
- Thursday, November 16, 200r> - Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 07:41:15 (EST)
My two cents are: WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. � Five observers to Saturday's hand count in Palm Beach County have filed affidavits in federal court charging that a Democratic county commissioner manipulated ballots so Al Gore would receive more votes than George W. Bush. Carol Roberts, a de facto appointee to the three-member elections canvassing board, is accused in the filings of asking a Democratic observer to the count whether ballots should count and that she "twisted the ballots and poked her finger directly in sections of, and aggressively handled, the ballots." On one occasion, observer John Grotta said in a sworn statement, Miss Roberts looked at a ballot and said " 'Unfortunately, the corners aren't detached,' as she was referring to a ballot that would have been a vote for Vice President Gore." The most pointed charges in the affidavits were cited in a request by the Palm Beach Republican Party that Miss Roberts, a longtime Democrat, step down from the board because of her partisan behavior in last week's sample count of 4,600 ballots. When the count found that Mr. Gore netted 19 more votes, Miss Roberts was adamant about a full recount, asserting that Mr. Gore could claim as many as 1,900 more votes based on the sampling. Miss Roberts refused to remove herself from the panel, saying in a public statement � read by canvassing board chairman Charles Burton to a press gallery that is now an encampment outside the Emergency Operation Center here � that the count was done "in full view of public observers from both parties and cameras from all over the world. "All board members examined and voted on all questioned ballots and nearly all votes were unanimous. . . . I will continue to be fair and impartial and will not recuse myself." Yesterday, Miss Roberts publicly challenged the election powers of Secretary of State Katherine Harris, a Republican, in the recount dispute, saying Attorney General Robert Butterworth, a Democrat, had the proper authority. Mrs. Harris has been the target of Democrats, who claim she is partisan and must recuse herself. The partisan rancor has completely divided the sides in the manual recount debate. Palm County's hand count was delayed yesterday pending the state Supreme Court's opinion on the legal standing of the process. The charge against Miss Roberts "is not a witch hunt," said Mark Hoch, administrator for the county's Republican Party. "We have complaints coming out of the woodwork, and most of the things we look at are unsubstantiated," Mr. Hoch said. "Carol Roberts, though, can be seen as truly partisan." Miss Roberts arrived at the emergency center around 6:15 a.m. yesterday with a sheriff's deputy bodyguard and a personal assistant. As a vocal advocate of the manual count in both Palm Beach County and three other surrounding � and Democrat-dominated �counties, Miss Roberts has thrived on the controversy surrounding the recount. At one point this week, Miss Roberts said she would go to jail to have the manual recount accomplished. In Palm Beach County, recounts by hand and machine have added 787 votes for Mr. Gore to an extra 119 for Mr. Bush � a net Gore pick up of 668. The affidavits filed yesterday also include charges that elections workers were reluctant to reassess votes despite the protests of observers. In one case, a worker refused to recount a stack of ballots that contained Bush votes, according to observer Mark Klimer. Mr. Klimer's statement included the accusation that Miss Roberts picked up ballots from a stack that was to be evaluated later by the entire board and interspersed them with a stack of Gore votes. He also said the ballot evaluation was inconsistent. Some ballots judged as Gore votes did not meet the agreed standards for a valid vote, the West Palm Beach banker said. Mr. Klimer said yesterday he was in the counting room for 4 and 1/2 hours on Saturday. A Republican, Mr. Klimer said his interest was not partisan: "I was there to make sure it was fair." "Beyond a shadow of a doubt, what I saw is the absolute truth," Mr. Klimer said. Miss Roberts is one of three Democrats on the seven-member County Commission. She was elected in 1986 after serving 11 years on the West Palm Beach City Council. When she became president of the Florida Association of Counties in 1996, Miss Roberts took some heat for marking the occasion with three days of festivities paid for with $55,000 from her business friends.
democrats are a real piece of work
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 02:39:43 (EST)
My two cents are: ``It is becoming very clear that Al Gore and his lawyers and his statisticians are selectively targeting Democratic strongholds to keep counting until he gets the result they want.''
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 02:33:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Mechanism Recovered Police Say Florida Democrat Had a �Votamatic� in His Car Florida State Rep. Irving Slosberg, a Democrat, holds a copy of the disputed Palm Beach County ballot at a rally in front of the county's elections office, on Nov. 9. (Gary I. Rothstein/AP Photo) By Chris Vlasto and David Ruppe Nov. 15 � Several days after presidential votes were tallied in what has become the hotbed of Florida�s post-election confusion, police in Palm Beach County confiscated a ballot-box mechanism from the car of a well-known local Democrat. The mechanism, called a �Votamatic,� did not contain any ballots. It�s a device used on some types of ballot boxes to punch votes through ballot cards, which are then tallied by computers. According to a police report filed at the Palm Beach County sheriff�s office and obtained by ABCNEWS, Irving Slosberg, 53, pulled the mechanism from his car and handed it over to police on Nov. 11 after denying to a county government employee that he had it. When told of the incident, Palm Beach County�s supervisor of elections, Theresa Lefore, declined to press charges, according to the report. �She noted that this incident did occur during the hand count of the presidential election and Lefore stated she did not wish to pursue further this matter at this time due to extenuating circumstances,� it said. No further action was taken. County Official Contacts Authorities Slosberg, a 53-year-old resident of nearby Boca Raton who owns a handbag company, recently won a seat in the state Legislature amid allegations he tried to buy his election. The unidentified officer who filed the report had been working a special elections detail when he was contacted by Denise Cote, director of public affairs for Palm Beach County. Cote said she believed Slosberg had an official Palm Beach County ballot box, according to the police report. Cote told the officer she first wanted to speak with Slosberg alone to convince him to give the machinery back, but she asked the officer to stand by. Ten minutes later, Cote returned to the officer and said Slosberg had become confrontational and denied having the mechanism. �I asked Mr. Slosberg to return it to me, and he said no, he intended to use it,� Cote told ABCNEWS.com. She said Slosberg did not say how he wanted to use it and he declined to say how he had obtained it. �I was told by the county�s attorney�s office that it must have been taken from a voting booth, because there was no other way that he could have obtained it,� Cote said. When the officer asked Slosberg whether he had the item, Slosberg led the officer to his car and handed over the Votamatic, according to the police report. ABCNEWS tried to contact Slosberg, but he was not available for comment. Elected After a Recount Slosberg won his new seat during a heated and extremely close election. Just days before a Democratic runoff, which he won, his opponent, incumbent Curt Levine, filed a state ethics complaint, accusing Slosberg of trying to buy the election by giving away thousanberg had barely squeaked past Levine. He reportedly had 50.5 percent of the votes to Levine�s 49.5 percent. Slosberg was declared the winner after a recount of the votes. �It Disappeared� A Palm Beach Post political columnist wrote Monday that Slosberg had been �schlepping� the mechanism around the county government center �like a traveling election equipment salesman.� �He was happy to provide a demonstration of the county�s ballot problems for anyone with a TV camera last week,� wrote columnist George Bennett. But Slosberg was no longer toting the visual aid Saturday night, after Mary McCarty, a Palm Beach County commissioner, demanded to know how he got his hands on a piece of official county voting machinery, Bennett wrote. �It disappeared,� Slosberg said Sunday when asked about the Votamatic.
democrats: a real piece of work
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 01:41:27 (EST)
My two cents are: The Florida Secretary of State is quite a babe, in a wizened sort of way. Nice duds. She reminds me of that lady prosecutor on the O.J. Simpson case. There's something slightly overdone and decadent about true Republican women, like a cherry when it's got just a whiff of rot in it.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 01:15:03 (EST)
My two cents are: Open Letter #4? What happened to Open Letter #2 and Open Letter #3? How is that guy on the television show going to know what to say? Mulheney, McHallory, what's his name? The one who refused to credit Open Letter #1 on the air. Glint, don't tell anyone but for what it's worth this Pete character isn't a lawyer. To get a lawyer's license you have to know some laws, same way a civil engineer has to know how to read a nomograph or a bus driver has to know how to shift gears, or a cafeteria lady has to know hash from apple betty.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 01:10:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Apparently gross stupidity isn't a good enough reason to overturn an election...still I feel sorry for those well intended morons who didn't know that they were supposed to vote for one person only or to push the pin all the way through the card.I'm sure some of them thought they were voting for Hillary Clinton, that they were at the race track,or applying for free cheese. By the way, I wonder why only Dims have trouble voting.
RickyD
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 00:38:57 (EST)
My two cents are: It's just that it's a relief to see the actual laws being discussed on the news networks. Sure beats Jessee Jackson's and Wexler's nausiating spin. The Bush attorney's on MSNBC now.
Anonymous.
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 00:35:49 (EST)
My two cents are: All republicans are so excited they can barely stand themselves. So much for waving olive branchesaster William M. Daley <as seen on CNN tonight>
- Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 00:01:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Just saw a Bush lawyer on TV who reiterated that there is no standing legal basis to have hand recounts. Compared Gore's absurd offer of statewide recounts to two pro ball teams that get together and agree to play another inning -- no precident for it in sports or law.
Onward Christian Soldiers!
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:29:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:24:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete, enjoyed reading your open letter. As usual, it appears that the view you take is playing out in the political and legal arenas. Man, this must be an all consuming spectator sport of lawyers all over. I haven't seen any professional block so excited since the entimologists when the 18 year locusts emerged about 12 years ago. <≫ Hey E, George Bush is on T.V. now and he thanked you and everone else for all the e-mail!
Glint
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:18:36 (EST)
My two cents are: Hate to burst your bubble, but this woman has just slit Bush's throat. It's over, and your guy's going down for the count, Pete.
turning point
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:09:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore forced the jerk from Texas to come out. Sat they will announce he is the winner even though it won't be overin the courts . I wonder what ambassadorship she has been promised?
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:08:58 (EST)
My two cents are: It's over.
sorry about that furuncle dubya
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:04:16 (EST)
My two cents are: Katherine the Great's arbitrary decision spells doom for the Scrub Bush.
DoomsDay
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:03:14 (EST)
My two cents are: The comment by the lawyer on the Geraldo show was the best," I think this woman has just given birth to an illegitimate President."
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 23:00:08 (EST)
My two cents are: No katey girl you tow the line you keep all them baaaad dem votes outa the charmed circle of certification. You jus' HOLD em up so everbuddy will fergit they exist and yore man Georgie will git the big prize and lose that ugly boil yup yu bet.
Big Brother's Holding Company
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:59:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Jeb told her that Dubya told him to tell her to tell everybody she wouldn't accept all them thousands of Gore votes no sirreee.
Big Brother
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:51:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Recounts will go forward and should be counted,says no less an authority than Warren Rudman.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:48:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Now the battle is joined. There will be no more turning the other cheek. Whoever advised her should be shot.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:43:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush Florida campaign co-chairman and Secretary of State refuses to accept new recounts. This imbecilic act, by which Harris hopes to save Bush, actually marks the beginning of the end for Bush.
Going Down Fast
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:27:07 (EST)
My two cents are: Hate to burst your bubbles, but she has in fact follwoed m y strategy. No Handcounts. Checkmate.
Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:19:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush's only hope is vote suppression.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:16:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore asks for recounts in all counties. Bush hides under pillow, sobbing for Dad.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 22:01:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Read today that the famous overseas absentee ballots are coming in at the rate of 75/day. If they break the same way they did in '96, 54/46, that means Bush picks up an extra 3 votes per day. Even factoring Nader, it's hard to see Dubya padding his lead by much that way.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:54:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Hawaii lawyer trying to interpret Fla Law is like the missing link suddenly being found. Remote.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:49:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Baker says machines are more reliable 'cause they're neither Democrat nor Republican, well OK then, guess he'd have no problem letting Democrats run the ballots through those machines out of sight of all Repuglican observers.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:47:39 (EST)
My two cents are: First, Judge Lewis could not find that the 5 pm Tuesday deadline could be extended, or he would have issued an injunction extending the deadline in a heartbeat. His failure to issue an injunction extending the deadline proves he would have no authority to do so. Instead, he affirmed that 5 pm tuesday deadline. However, he then threw in some gratuitous language in his order which has so far been misinterpreted and spun incorrectly by the Democrats. The first SHALL deadline is enforceable as the deadline for all counties to get in their results. The second statutory "MAY" language only allows for discretion as follows: i) to completely disregard noncomplying counties' ballots altogether OR ii) to use the last machine recounts (i.e. the second count). The statute does NOT say the SOS has discretion to accept late ballots, but the Judge liberally carved a new exception saying she MAY do so. He was fudging the discretion statute on whether to count noncompliant counties' ballots AT ALL with whether to accept ballots submitted after the deadline. The latter interpretation is not consistent with his first ruling that the dealine cannot be extended. As a practical matter, Judge Lewis simply did not want to stop the de facto handcounting so he made up an ambiguous new rule allowing the ongoing handcount to proceed (rather than be halted) so that the SOS could exercise discretion to accept or not accept late ballots, even though no statute expressly gives her that discretion. As a result, if the SOS does exercise such a newly created discretionary determination, she will violate the existing, clear, non-extendable, statutory deadline of 5 pm Tuesday. The Judge could care less because he does not want to be blamed for halting the handcount even though he has no authority to create a new rule to extend the deadline. Such a decision could not result in an enforceable injunction or he would have issued a mandatory injunction, nevertheless, he "suggested" where the SOS "may" have discretion and then reminded her of boilerplate law on discretion that all agencies know by heart. The Judge was wrong in creating this new discretion. Nevertheless, this is where we are: 1. The Secretary of State should wait for the explanation from the counties about their reasons to submit new handcounts since she has no power to stop the noncompliant canvassing committees from recounting in their counties without a court order. There is no harm for her to say she will wait to see what they say because the deadline has already come and passed. The counties who are presently counting are doing so without any real legal authority by statute. When she does finish this process of reviewing the reasons, she must reject ALL counties who submit late results, on the following grounds: a) The statute does not allow for submission of handcounts after the 5 pm Tuesday deadline. Only overseas absentee ballots may be submitted by Friday midnight; b) The Palm County canvassing board does not have authority to order a recount because it is an illegal committee since all its members are from one party: Democrat, in violation of the statute. So, they have no legitimate authority to authorize a recount, c) Under the applicable statue, there have already been two machine counts. The interpretation of the statute requires that the canvassing board must make a finding that there is a systemic or tabulation method problem with the machines. Such a finding is a condition precedent, or prerequisite, to ordering a hand recount. The canvassing committee initially found that there was no machine error, only human error. Therefore, there can be no properly authorized hand recount, without such a finding, and any recount without such a finding is void. Further any such decision can be reviewed and rejected by the SOS in her discretion; d) the determination to perform a manual recount is unfair because they have set no provable standards and no safeguards to ensure objectivity and avoid fraud. Without such standards the results are not as reliable as the machine and can only be influenced by the destruction or loss of votes for a candidate; e) there is no guidance in determining the "will of the voter" by third party review of certain ballots because it is impossible to know if the voter had simply changed their mind and decided not to vote or intentionally damaged the ballot; f) such a review violates the equal protection clause since it allows counties who missed the deadline to submit votes where similar recounts are not proceeding in other counties where aggrieved voters may seek recounts. If the rule is going to be liberally relaxed for one set of counties, it must be for all others. The present weighting favors heavily democratic precincts to the disadvantage of other counties with heavily republican precincts. [or Bush should accept Gore's proposal to recount all counties if Gore's selective recount does in fact put Gore over the top]; g) Citizens have a right to rely on the existing laws, rather than newly judicially legislated exceptions. Therefore, the new rule can apply to the next elections, but cannot be applied retroactively to affect the existing vote or there is a denial of due process under the Constitution. 2. These are some primary arguments to make. In the end, the SOS has to ignore all counties who seek to add to their pre-deadline tallies (except for bona fide overseas absentee votes). The basis for ignoring them is the violation of the deadline and the reasons set forth above which provide sufficient reasons and therefore can never be deemed arbitrary and capricious. She has the authority and she can uphold the deadline. She should not accept ANY post deadline submissions other than absentees. If she does, this will likely never be resolved. In the end, this will require the US Supreme court to weigh in assuming Gore is able to create enough new votes to get an edge. If that happens, there ought to be recounts in every precinct in every county in order to satisfy fundamental notions of fair play and pursuant to the equal protection arguments.
Sorry, this is a revised Open Letter #4 - Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:40:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Saw that picture of members of Congress planting the tree on Capitol Hill. Damn, how come I can't plant trees without getting dirt all over me.
gnat
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:25:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore offers to accept statewide hand recount. Statesmanship: 10 up for Gore. Gore up eleven; Bush down four. Fifteen point differential.
Say it now, say it strong: President Gore
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:11:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore invites Bush to a meeting. One up for Gore. Bush continues desperation vote count legal challenges. Two down for Bush. Bush loses challenges. Two more down for Bush.
Bush down four
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 21:08:37 (EST)
My two cents are: So , here is the great republican party of Lincoln and States Rights hiding behind the shroud of the US SUpreme Court. Now the State Supreme Court means nothing to this bunch of wimps and liars.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 20:55:10 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore should accept no recount ONLY if count shows Bush well ahead.
Ipso Facto
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 20:53:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Good, Bush should accept a total recount ONLY IF Gore's handcounts put Gore ahead after all absentee ballots are counted. Therefore, if the handcounts put Gore over, Bush can then recount everything. But ONLY If Gore pulls ahead.
Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 20:45:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry, the Florida Supreme Court is not the final arbiter. It will be up to the US Supreme court and teh only way to set up the ducks correctly is for Harris to do it this way. then Bush gets in. And Gore has to move to some state who will take him: maybe New york.
Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:55:07 (EST)
My two cents are: The Fla Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. The recount will go on and will be counted and Gore WILL be the winner.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:43:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Stick it 'Toine, you little freak.
Manchowski
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:39:59 (EST)
My two cents are: As reported on CNN, the full story is not being explained. We get the emotional spin and Democrat side fullty explained, but not the factual and legal side. This is how Harris can win. First, Judge Lewis could not find that the 5 pm Tuesday deadline could be extended or he would have issued an injunction against the deadline. His failure to issue an injunction extending the deadline proves he would have no authority to do so or he would have done so in a heartbeat. Instead, he affirmed that deadline. However, he then threw in some gratuitous language in his order which has so far been misinterpreted and spun incorrectly by the democrats. The first SHALL deadline is enforceable for the deadline for all counties to get in their results. The second statutory MAY language only allows for discretion as follows: i) to completely disregard noncomplying counties' ballots altogether OR to use the last machine recounts (the second count). The statute does NOT say the Secretary of State has discretion to accept late ballots, but the Judge liberally carved a new exception saying she MAY do so. He was fudging the discretion statute on whether to accept them at all with whether to accept late ballots. The latter could not be consistent with his first ruling. As a practical matter, he simply did not want to stop the handcounting so he made up some new rule to allow the recount so that teh sect' of State could apply some discretion (but she does not have that discretion). So, if she did exercise such discretion she will violate the deadline statute. The Judge could care less. It was not an enforceable injunction. So this is where we are: 1. The Secretary of State should wait for the explanation of the need to submit new handcounts because she has no power to stop the noncompliant canvassing committees from nevertheless recounting in their counties without a court order. There is no harm in saying she will wait because the deadline has already come and passed. The counties who are counting are doing so without any real legal authority by statute. When she does finish this process of reviewing the reasons, she must reject ALL counties who submit late results on the following grounds: a) The statute does not allow for submission of handocunts after the 5 pm tuesday deadline. Only overseas absentee ballots may be submitted by Friday midnight; b) The Palm County canvassing board does not have authority to order a recount because it is an illegal committee since all its members are from one party: Democrat, in violation of the statute. So, they have no legitimate authority to authorize a recount, c) Under the applicable statue, there have already been two machine counts. The interpretation of the statute requires that the canvassing board must make a finding that there is a systemic or tabulation method problem with the machines. Such a finding is a condition precedent or prerequisite to ordering a hand recount. The canvassing committee initially found that there was no machine error, only human error. Therefore, there can be no properly authorized hand recount without such a finding and any recount without such a finding is void. further any such decision can be reviewed and rejected by the SOS in her discretion; c) the determination to perform a manual recount is unfair because they have set no provable standards and no safeguards to ensure objectivity and avoid fraud. Without such standards the results are not as reliable as the machine and can only be influenced by the destruction or loss of votes for a candidate; d) there is no guidance in determining the "will of the voter" by third party review of certain ballots because it is impossible to know if the voter had simply changed their mind and decided not to vote or intentionally damaged the ballot; e) such a review violates the equal protection clause since it allows counties who missed the deadline to submit votes where similar recounts are not proceeding in other counties where aggrieved voters may seek recounts. If the rule is going to be liberally relaxed for one set of counties, it must be for all others. The present weighting favors heavily democratic precincts to the disadvantage of other counties with heavily republican precincts; f) Citizens have a right to rely on the existing laws, rather than newly judicially legislated exceptions. Therefore, the new rule can apply to the next elections, but cannot be applied retroactively to affect the existing vote or there is a denial of due process under the Constitution. 2. These are some primary arguments to make. In the end, the Secretary of State has to ignore all counties who seek to add to their pre-deadline tallies (except for bona fide overseas absentee votes). The basis for ignoring them is the violation of the deadline and the reasons set forth above which provide sufficient reasons and therefore can never be deemed arbitrary and capricious. She has the authority and she can uphold the deadline. She should not accept ANY post deadline submissions other than absentees. If she does, this will likely never be resolved. In the end, this will require the US Supreme court to weigh in assuming Gore is able to create enough new votes to get an edge. If that happens, there ought to be recounts in every precinct in every county in order to satisfy fundamental notions of fair play and pursuant to the equal protection arguments.
Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:34:29 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.newsmax.com/images/stories/voting4dummies.gif
Newly Published Florida Voting Guide
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:20:20 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.gopbi.com/shared/news/politics/ballot3.jpg
Palm Beach Ballot According to Whining Democrats
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:10:45 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.gopbi.com/shared/news/politics/rippedballot.jpg
Palm Beach Ballot With New Easier-to-Follow Instructions
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:05:59 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.gopbi.com/shared/news/politics/hugeballot.jpg
New Ballot For Palm Beach's Elderly
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 19:03:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Sie sind ein amerikanischer Schei�ekopf des dummen Bumsens gerade.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 18:15:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah? Well, you nasty bastards eat frogs and snails.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 17:54:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Vous les Am�ricains idiots me faites le rire - ha ha - parce que vous ne pouvez pas m�me choisir un pr�sident r�gner votre pays stupide
Pierre
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 17:41:37 (EST)
My two cents are: WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Black lawmakers on Tuesday joined the nation's largest civil rights group in asking U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno to investigate allegations that black voters faced discrimination at some polls in Florida, whose vote tallies will determine who becomes president. ``We recon' dere be substantial evidence indicatin' dat many African-Americans and oda' mino'ities wuz denied deir fundamental rights as citizens uh de United States,'' members of the Congressional Black Caucus told Reno in a letter. ``We urge yo' ass t' move quick-like t' determine da damn validity o' aich o' dese-he'ah allegashuns an' t' snatch appropriate legal steps t' remedy no violashuns yo' ass find.'' Republican George W. Bush leads Democrat Al Gore by just 300 votes in Florida, although that total could change after some ballots are recounted by hand and when overseas mail-in ballots are counted. The winner of Florida will receive the state's 25 electoral votes, enabling either Bush or Gore to surpass the 270 needed to win the presidency. Neither can reach 270 without Florida. A public hearing held last Saturday by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People heard testimony about a demolished polling station, registered voters being turned away by election staff, and blacks being questioned by police when they came to vote. In their letter to Reno, caucus members listed what they said were 11 specific types of discrimination directed at blacks and other minorities, including one case of a voter who had never been arrested being denied the right to vote after being told he had a prior felony conviction. In another precinct, election officials failed to notify voters in a predominantly African-American precinct that their polling place -- a school -- was closed and failed to direct them by signs or other means "t' da damn propa' pollin' place", the letter said. Problems were also reported in other areas of the county, the caucus said in its letter to Reno. ``De wight of evewy U.S. Oh, dat scwewy wabbit! citizen to cast a bawwot and have that bawwot counted must be pwotected without compwomise and without wegawd to the votew's wace,'' the lawmakers said. ``This hyar is a tax fo' th' federal govment on account o' federal guareentees in federal eleckshuns is at stake. Mo'eovah time is of th' essence on account o' this hyar is sho'ly a situashun in which jestice delayed'd be jestice denied,'' added James Clyburn, a South Carolina Democrat.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 17:21:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Olivia Harrison said: "I saw my husband lookin' super pale. That dude was starin' at me in a totally bizarre manner. I have never seen my husband look like before. I was knocked backwards and thuh man was up against thuh wall and I was on my hands and knees by his feet. I reached up and tried to grab his testicles but just got a lot of trouser fabric. Like, there was blood on thuh walls, oh, baby, blood on thuh carpet. Like, ya know, this was like wow! the moment I realised we were goin' to be murdered. I turned around and grabbed a lamp. I brought it down on thuh man's head as hard as I could. My husband said 'don't stop, mostly, hit that dude even harder', mostly, so I hit that dude again. After I hit that dude over thuh head thuh man jumped up and faced me. I had thuh lamp in my hand and was swin'in' it at that dude. The cord was like wow! too long and he ripped it over my head and gashed my head. That dude began wrappin' thuh cord around his hands and I thought he was like wow! goin' to strangle me. I threw thuh lamp at that dude and ran out of thuh room."
BEATLE (George Harrison) SANG HARE KRISHNA TO WILD-EYED KNIFEMAN (part 2)
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 17:08:27 (EST)
My two cents are: George Harrison testified: "I 'ave no doubt this geezer had the intention of killin' me and me trouble and strife. There were times I truly believed I were dyin'. I seen a geezer run from the kitchen. He 'ad the mockers put on in the centre of the bloody room and 'ave a looked towards me. 'e started shoutin' and screamin'. I could spot he 'eld a knife in 'is 'and and a stick I recognised as part of the statue. I decided ter shout hammer and tack at 'im, right, to confuse and distract 'im. I'll get out me spoons. I shouted, 'Hare Krishna, right, Hare Krishna', do wot guvnor! 'e rushed towards the bottom of the bloody apples and pears and 'ave a looked up towards me. I attempted ter go into anuvver room but I couldn't turn the key, right? I took the bloomin' split-second decision ter tackle the bloomin' man because once 'e passed me, boff me ole lady and me muvver-in-lor were available. Me first fought were ter grab the bleedin' knife and it knocked 'im off balance. We tumbled ter the chuffin' floor. I were fendin' off the blows wiv me 'ands."He lost grip of 'is stick. Yer can't 'ave a knees-up wivout a joanna. He were on top of me, stabbin' towards me upper body. Yer can't 'ave a knees-up wivout a joanna. I were orare of me ole lady attackin' 'im and strikin' 'im about the bleedin' head wiv a poker, right? He turned 'is anger towards 'er and chased 'er. I again tackled 'im, placin' me 'and 'round the blade. Right. He struck out blindly. I could feel the strengff drainin' from me, do wot guvnor! I vividly remember a frust ter my chest. I believed I 'ad been fatally stabbed. Me ole lady struck this man 'round the head wiv a lamp. He stumbled over. I took 'old of the knife and wrenched it from 'is grasp."
BEATLE (George Harrison) SANG HARE KRISHNA TO WILD-EYED KNIFEMAN (part 1)
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 17:07:57 (EST)
My two cents are: Eeven before the selective hand recount, Palm Beach County certified 800 more votes than its precinct-by-precinct canvass reported on election night. That's not fuzzy math; it's impossible math. On election night, Bush had a 1,784-vote lead over Gore, but after several recounts, that margin is now down to 327 votes. How did that happen? A University of Nevada professor calculated that the chance that Gore would increase his Florida vote total as much as he did are 43 million to one. How did Gore beat the odds? One thing we know now is that, when the ballots were recounted by machine, Pinellas County (another Gore stronghold) showed an extra 417 votes for Gore. How can that be? It turns out that the very human election officials decided to help things along by altering the ballots before they were resubmitted to the machine. They removed the chaff (the little piece of paper the voter is supposed to push through the computer ballot) by hand � thus giving Gore an extra 417 votes. No other Florida county did that. The election officials treated the Gore ballots differently than the Bush ballots.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 16:55:08 (EST)
My two cents are: QUINCY, Fla. (AP) - A top prosecutor said a rural north Florida county should not have recounted by hand more than 2,000 presidential ballots that had been rejected by voting machines. The day after the Nov. 7 election, Gadsden County's mostly Democratic canvassing board went into a back room and recounted all the votes machines had rejected. Members of the public watched through a window. When they were finished, Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites) had 170 more votes than before the recount. Gadsden County is heavily Democratic, with 22,340 registered Democrats compared to only 2,633 Republicans.
more dirty possibly illegal tricks leaking from dem clymers
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 16:49:09 (EST)
My two cents are: WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (Reuters) - A state judge hearing lawsuits calling for a fresh election in Palm Beach County because of confusing ballot sheets said on Wednesday he wanted to see a precedent for such a radical solution. Judge Jorge Labarga, hearing consolidated lawsuits from voters who say the so-called butterfly ballot design used by the county was confusing and deprived them of their right to a fair vote in the Nov. 7 presidential election, set a Friday hearing for the case. ..... The judge cited Florida law, which sets a specific date for choosing presidential electors to the national Electoral College that decides the presidency. ``It seems to me the next time that an election can be held is the second Tuesday after the first Monday in 2004,'' he said. Labarga also called on the lawyers to help him find any precedents for a fresh vote in presidential elections. ``Find me a case in the continental United States since 1776 where there has been a revote for president,'' Labarga said, adding this was the lawyers' ``homework assignment.'' He set a hearing on the issue for Friday at 9:30 a.m. EST (1430 GMT).
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 16:34:57 (EST)
My two cents are: QUINCY, Fla. (AP) _ A top prosecutor said a rural north Florida county should not have recounted by hand more than 2,000 presidential ballots that had been rejected by voting machines. The day after the Nov. 7 election, Gadsden County"s mostly Democratic canvassing board went into a back room and recounted all the votes machines had rejected. Members of the public watched through a window. When they were finished, Vice President Al Gore had 170 more votes than before the recount. Gadsden County is heavily Democratic, with 22,340 registered Democrats compared to only 2,633 Republicans.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 16:33:55 (EST)
My two cents are: WASHINGTON - Maryland Rep. Constance A. Morella, who votes with the Democrats more often than any other House Republican, says she would cast her lot with Democratic nominee Al Gore if the disputed presidential race is ultimately decided by Congress. Morella, 69, who just survived an usually close contest for re-election to a seventh term as her Montgomery County district went heavily for the Democratic ticket, said she believes she has little option but to reflect the views of her voters by supporting Gore. "I wouwd feew obwigated," she said in an interview. Defection from GOP ranks is nothing new for Morella. She frequently bucked her party when it was led by then-House Speaker Newt Gingrich, whose conservative agenda was out of sync with the moderate views of her Democrat-leaning constituency. Those defections may have helped save her in the well-financed contest waged by Democrat lobbyist Terry Lierman, who had extensive support from the Democratic Party hierarchy. "I had all de Kennedys in hehe against me 'n $3 million," said Morella, who finished with 53 percent of the vote. "Undeh the, errr, circumstasss, duuhhhh, I consideh dat a triumph."
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 16:16:48 (EST)
My two cents are: NOVEMBER 14�Even as a growing number of major news outlets are urging an end to pursuit of claims that black citizens were wrongly discouraged or kept from the Florida polls, the NAACP continues to pile up testimony from African Americans who say they were disenfranchised. The NAACP wants the U.S. Justice Department to investigate the situation. Among the NAACP's claims: African Americans received phone calls the weekend before the election from a speaker who claimed to be with the NAACP, asking them to vote for Bush. Similar calls were reported in Michigan and Virginia. The NAACP, of course, is bipartisan and doesn't officially endorse candidates. In a maneuver that smacks of the old civil rights fights in the South, substantial numbers of blacks were turned away from polling booths in various parts of the state. In Hillsborough County, sheriff's deputies checked voter IDs and claimed the race stated on the card didn't match the race of the person standing in front of them. "I caint tell yo' ass how many times it went down," Sheila Douglas of the NAACP told the Sarasota Herald-Tribune, "but it went down mo' often dan not."
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 15:58:06 (EST)
My two cents are: WASHINGTON, NOVEMBER 15�Two South Carolina members of the electoral college claim they have received phone calls from an unidentified person asking them to change their votes from Republican George W. Bush to Democrat Al Gore, according the Columbia newspaper, The State. Bush easily carried South Carolina, garnering 57 percent of the vote. The state has eight electoral votes. Both electors said they assumed the requests came from the Gore campaign, but the paper reports this morning that the Democratic camp denies making any such calls. The men said they wouldn't switch. "I'd cut my arm off first before voting for Al Gore," Cecil Windham, a retired farmer, told the paper.
more dirty tricks leaking from dem anuses
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 15:49:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Rich man.Bush Beggar man...Gore Poor man...Gore ...... THIEF .....Bush
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 15:38:13 (EST)
Mnt all votes. 11,600 votes were lost to gore in Fla.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 15:01:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Disrespect= Dubya Bush
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:58:59 (EST)
My two cents are: According to Jay Leno, that's not a boil, that's where he burned himself with the crack pipe. I'm afraid we may be in for four years of this disrespect.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:57:07 (EST)
My two cents are: Machines aren't interested in the outcome, the way people are. Machines work just fine. Whoever heard of a photocopy machine, for example, sucking two pieces of paper through? Machines don't get stressed out and grow boils in their gears.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:56:01 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't know why you have to go all the way to the supreme court to determine that hand-counting ballots is unconstitutional. As Secretary Baker says, machines are much more accurate than people, and in fact only machines should be allowed to vote.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:52:21 (EST)
My two cents are: The supreme court will eventually step in and stop this nonsense.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:50:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Texas without the hat and the belt buckle.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:49:16 (EST)
My two cents are: Arkansas is just a poor man's Texas.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:48:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Get rid of Arkansas while you're at it.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:47:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Absolutely. Get rid of those signs along the Arkansas border. They're a sin against nature.
gnat
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:39:52 (EST)
My two cents are: A stitch in time saves nine.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:38:28 (EST)
My two cents are: "I didn't think Daley evoked images of Jabba The Hut" - Whatever. I don't either. Like I said, he resembles Dave Thomas's portrayal of the character. Bushy-browed crazy-eyed, thrusting domed head. To my knowledge Dave Thomas didn't appear in the cartoon. I'll look for a pic when I have time. Time now for a late lunch...
Glint
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:38:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Don't count your chickens 'til their hatched.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:37:34 (EST)
My two cents are: He who laughs last laughs best.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:36:35 (EST)
My two cents are: If the shoe was on the other foor...
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 14:31:01 (EST)
My two cents are: �Pam Iorio, Democrat election supervisor in Hillsborough County, FL, and head of the FL State Association of Supervisors of Elections, on hand-counting: �Hand counting is not always the most accurate indicator of voter intent.� �American University's Richard Smolka, who publishes Election Administration Reports: �Hand counting is really mislabeled because it's not a matter of counting. It's a matter of examining and determining voter intent.��
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:41:42 (EST)
My two cents are: LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) - Visitors to Arkansas next year will no longer be greeted by signs welcoming them to the ``Home of President Bill Clinton.'' Dozens of signs along the state border will be removed or painted over with a new message after Clinton leaves office in January, the Arkansas Highway Commission said Tuesday. Longtime Clinton foe Jim Parsons, who has lobbied to remove the signs, said his nagging finally paid off. ``The people maybe do have an influence. If we speak out, perhaps we can turn Arkansas around,'' he said.
Eetz Wahhrrr!!!!
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:37:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Anyone hear about how this guy Ellis, who was chief coordinator of the returns, and who is Bart & Jeb's first cousin, is "up for review," because he leaked confidential information to the Bush camp? Supposedly, he even bragged about it. He wrote in some column that that night, he was on the phone with his first cousins, trading the phone back and forth, one was the Governor of Florida, the other, the President-elect. He said, "now THAT is cool."
Whatever
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:23:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Go fuck yourself, you crazy bastard. You're as bad as JC Watts, probably look like him.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:20:16 (EST)
My two cents are: Thwow out those damn Gore votes! Thwow them out so men and Daddy's fwends can be Pwesident!
Lil' Bush
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:18:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Here you go Glint, the Palm Beach Democrat canvasing board is likely illegal: "The 2000 Florida Statutes Title IX Electors and Elections Chapter 102 Conducting Elections and Ascertaining the Results 102.12 Inspectors and clerks to conduct elections.-- (2) Each member of the election board shall be able to read and write the English language and shall be a registered qualified elector of the county in which the member is appointed or a person who has preregistered to vote, pursuant to s. 97.041(1)(b), in the county in which the member is appointed. *****No election board shall be composed solely of members of one political party; however, in any primary in which only one party has candidates appearing on the ballot, all clerks and inspectors may be of that party.****** Any person whose name appears as an opposed candidate for any office shall not be eligible to serve on an election board." Ta Ta.
Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:14:36 (EST)
My two cents are: "Those Who Make the Votes Decide Nothing; Those Who Count the Votes Decide Everything"
Josef Stalin
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:05:01 (EST)
My two cents are: Free the pregnant chads! Free the dimpled chads!
FLA judge orders pro-chad ruling
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:02:49 (EST)
My two cents are: I hope someone keeps track of how many votes Bush LOSES in these districts. One pile they don't count: the round file. Sect'y of State won't allow the new ones. Denial of equal protection unless all counties hand counted. Secty of State will certify results as of yesterday and only include absentees. Bush will win, except for the actions of the courts to change the outcome. Ultimately, the US Supreme court will weigh in and clear the nonsense if the House doesn't decide it first. Have a good day.
Pete�
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:02:33 (EST)
My two cents are: From Love Story in 1970 to Prizes, his most recent bestseller, Erich Segal has created a body of fiction that testifies to the importance of traditional values and virtues in contemporary life. To drive home his views, Segal revitalizes the sentimental novel, which evokes emotion to assert moral precepts. This study, the first full-length examination of his work, explores the development of his art and analyzes each of his seven novels in turn. Pelzer shows how Segal's novels explore the parent-child relationship, the price of success, the importance of love, marriage, and human commitment, and the temptations and pressures that make it difficult for the individual to live rightly. A biographical chapter discusses Segal's career as a novelist and an academic. A chapter on genre examines his fiction in the tradition of the sentimental novel. Each novel is discussed in a separate chapter and analyzed for plot structure, characterization, thematic elements, literary devices, and style. In addition, Pelzer defines and applies a variety of alternative critical approaches to the novels to widen the reader's perspective. A complete bibliography of Segal's work as well as selected reviews and criticism complete the volume. In this study Pelzer shows how both Segal's short, sentimental tales of love and loss and his multi-character sagas, which range wide in time and place, tap into the deeply held beliefs of his readers and assert traditional values. It is this reaffirmation of values that is the source of his popular appeal to American readers.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 13:01:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore was the model for Oliver in Love Story.
read it and weep
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:56:51 (EST)
My two cents are: I thought they were playing poker for the Presidency.
Whatever
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:47:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush and Gore should flip a coin, and whoever wins serves with the other's running mate as vice-president.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:33:47 (EST)
My two cents are: In a country where the president sins against nature in the White House and where the vice-president claims to be a model for Oliver in Love Story, is it any wonder that an election commissioner would fold, spindle, and mutilate a ballot?
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:32:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Finks, Broward County just did themselves proud by voting to go ahead with a recount. On to the Supreme Court. Count the Chad on the floor.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:24:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Impeach the winner.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 12:11:25 (EST)
My two cents are: "Obviously impartial"? Who are you kidding?
Co-Chairman Should Recuse Herself
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 11:41:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Things have come to a bad state in this country when judges appointed by DemocRATS are allowed to rule on the opinion of a an obviously impartial secretary of state. On the other hand, Glint, good science probably requires that you note that it's not Dade county but Palm Beach where the Democrats don't believe in one man one vote, the squawk about the confusing ballot being a side issue. The hand recount is about ensuring that votes are counted, and double-punched ballots are discarded.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 11:26:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Whatever they do, I hope they do it fast. As Secretary Baker says, this is playing hob with the stock market and when that happens it doesn't make much sense to stop and count votes.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:53:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Never saw "The Coneheads" flick, but I saw "The Coneheads" cartoon once. The Highmaster was this fat, lardiferous guy, who evoked images of Jabba The Hut. I didn't think Daley evoked images of Jabba The Hut. // Good morning.
Whatever
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:46:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Perhaps Daley and his evil legal demons can petition the court demanding that Bush and Gore snarfle the Garthok for the presidency.
Glint
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:40:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Has anyone else noticed the uncanny resemblance betweeh Gore campaign manager William M. Daley and the "Highmaster" character played by Dave Thomas character in the Coneheads flick?
Glint
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:35:16 (EST)
My two cents are: If Harris is the Secretary of State, she's requiring a written explanation so she can respond to it in a manner that is not arbitrary. The judges are appointed by elected officials, but they are appointed for life on the theory that it removes them from political pressure. A loyal American might assume that they will try to interpret the law with impartiality.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:30:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Three hundred votes ain't a bad mandate. And the wisdom of our forefathers obviates the horror of a popularly-elected president, as Glint points out. As soon as this is certified, it's time to celebrate, and then line up behind President Irregularity.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:25:07 (EST)
My two cents are: My boss and protector, who used to be the overboss long ago, has been maginalized and remaginalized to where a man probably can't take it any more, especially with a total vested pension. He's buying pizza today, which he has never done before, being cheap, so he must be quitting. Makes you feel exposed, like a furuncle on a fratboy's cheek.
Anonymous.
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:21:26 (EST)
My two cents are: That's right Pete, it looks like Harris is requiring a detailed "excuse" from counties requiring recounts so that the law regarding recounts may be applied to the reasons. The recount cessation motion the Bush campaign lost on Monday to the Clinton judge goes to the Florida Supreme Court today, I believe. Third day this week, third landmark decision. I don't know if that Court will be able to interpret the law correctly, however since all but one on the court are affiliated with the Democratic party whose members in Dade County don't understand one person one vote. "<chunk!>Aw crap, I just stuck my thing in Buchanan's. Where's Gore...oh here it is <chunk!>. What the hey, let 'em each get a vote, I'm outta here!"
Glint
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 10:16:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning yall. just heading off to my day at pothaole. six months of work swollen like an anticipatory furuncle on a fratboy's cheek that will bust one way or another today. One never knows, do one?
ydog
- Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 06:54:06 (EST)
My two cents are: THE PALM BEACH POKEY You put your stylus in, You put your stylus out, You put your stylus in, And you punch Buchanan out. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You put the Gore votes in, You put the Bush votes out, You put the Gore votes in, And you do another count. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You bring your lawyers in, You drag the whole thing out, You bring your lawyers in, And you put it all in doubt. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You let your doctors spin, You let the pundits spout, You let your retirees sue, And your people whine and pout. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You do the Palm Beach Pokey, You do the Palm Beach Pokey, You do the Palm Beach Pokey, That's what it's all about!
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:49:26 (EST)
My two cents are: MIAMI (AP) � Step to the front of the line. The U.S. Postal Service is hurrying military overseas ballots arriving in Florida through the delivery process, getting them to the 67 county election departments the same day they arrive in the country. Because of the close race between Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore to capture decisive Florida, the postal service says it is trying especially hard to assure the ballots arrive in the proper counties before Friday's midnight deadline. The ballots are being separated by workers at the Air Mail Center near Miami International Airport. Ballots destined for South Florida counties are being driven to the appropriate post offices for delivery that day. Those being sent to counties in north and central Florida are being flown to regional mail centers each morning, taken to the appropriate post office and delivered. As of Monday, the postal service had delivered 446 military overseas ballots to Florida's counties since Nov. 8. Tuesday's figures were not immediately available. An informal Associated Press survey of 64 of Florida's 67 election supervisors found that they had mailed out more than 19,300 overseas ballots. Of those, more than 10,000 had been returned and the majority of them counted. It was not immediately known how many ballots were outstanding. Election supervisors plan to count the remaining ballots on Friday and send the results to the Florida secretary of state's office. ``We understand the urgency of this situation and realize that the entire presidential election could rest on these ballots,'' postal service spokeswoman Enola C. Rice said Tuesday. Rice said the envelopes are marked ``absentee ballot,'' making them easy to spot among the hundreds and sometimes thousands of pieces of military mail arriving at the center about midnight daily. Workers pull the ballots and mark each with a tracking number so it can be followed through the process. Within hours, the ballots are put on trucks and planes heading throughout the state and delivered to the counties that afternoon. A regular piece of mail, such as a letter, normally takes one or two days to reach its recipient, Rice said. She said such a procedure cannot be done with civilian overseas absentee ballots because they arrive at numerous air mail centers throughout the country, not just in Florida.
bring in the troops
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:21:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Any day. Bring it on.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:20:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush wins: America loses..
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:16:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete versus David Boies.
Bring 'Em On
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:12:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Bet Bush can't abide Gore winning.
boilin' over
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:11:10 (EST)
My two cents are: AUSTIN, Texas, Nov 14 (AFP) - Republican candidate George W. Bush will "abide by" the certified Florida vote count announced Tuesday, and the results of the count of absentee votes due Friday, his campaign announced. "Governor Bush is willing to abide by tonight's certified count, and the count of overseas absentee ballots on Friday, even though this certified count may include disputed manual recounts and would cost Governor Bush votes," said the Texas governor's campaign spokeswoman Karen Hughes.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 23:00:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Bring him on. I fear no lying Democrat spinner. He will lose. Guaranteed. Bush will win. Checkmate.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 22:54:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi, gnat. One thing's for sure: Junior's Votegate has effectively ruined Jeb's political career. Too bad. Mama Bush thought Jeb was the one who ought to be President.
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 22:44:14 (EST)
My two cents are: Hasn't Florida had voting problems before? With all this practice maybe they can get it right the next time we have a presidential election. If GW makes it to the White House we're in trouble if he runs the country like his brother governs Florida.
gnat
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 22:20:53 (EST)
My two cents are: David Boies. Great choice. A litigator all litigators fear. Yee haw!
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 22:07:39 (EST)
My two cents are: The good thing about those long articles posted here is that whoever does it almost always adds a sneering statement on the signature line summing up the import to a troglodyte world-view. One doesn't have to read the article, just the witty tag-line.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 22:01:34 (EST)
My two cents are: More than 7,000 overseas ballots have yet to be returned to Florida, more than enough to turn the corner for George W. Bush or Al Gore -- although no one knows how many will actually be sent back or where in the world they will come from. To be counted, they must arrive by 5 p.m. Friday. According to state law, overseas ballots that arrive after election night are stored unopened in vaults in Florida's 67 counties. They will remain there, uncounted, until the Friday deadline passes. Each county decides when to count its votes. In Miami-Dade County, 1,699 ballots were mailed to places like Barcelona, Spain, and Managua, and 1,138 came back in time to be counted on election night. That means 561 are still outstanding, but from which countries and how many military voters, no one can say. Miami-Dade elections officials said 617 overseas ballots went to military addresses. One hundred of the 617 went to Virginia, and the remainder went to military or government addresses in 41 other states and territories. A total of 1,082 ballots went to civilians living overseas. And the largest batch among those -- 44 -- was sent to Floridians living in Israel, where an estimated 10,000 Jews with Florida ties are living. Election officials were not sure how many of the ballots from Israel were counted on election night and how many are still out there, or if their senders voted for Gore, as the Democratic Party believes. ``Our votes are in the mail,'' said Beverly Wolff, in an e-mail message from Haifa, Israel. ``Think of us as the cavalry riding to the rescue.'' She said she voted for Gore. Bruce Yudewitz, director of community planning for the Greater Miami Jewish Federation, said he was not aware of any effort from Florida to organize voting from Israel. He said his organization does not endorse political candidates. Other Florida counties where Navy and Air Force bases are located also reported that large numbers of ballots were mailed to military personnel, who Republican Party officials claim are more inclined to vote for Bush. But it was still uncertain just how many ballots are yet to be counted. A Herald survey of 33 counties on Friday showed that 3,975 overseas ballots had not yet arrived in Florida. A Palm Beach Post survey of 52 counties on Thursday showed officials were waiting for 7,429 ballots of 15,230 that were requested. An Associated Press survey of 28 counties found that less than half of the roughly 7,000 ballots mailed overseas had not come back. Okaloosa County Elections Supervisor Pat Hollarn said, ``I expect a sizable number -- at least a couple of hundred -- military votes, and most of those will be Republican.'' Escambia County, where Pensacola naval base is located, still had not received 1,176 ballots sent mostly to military personnel. Hillsborough County was waiting for 518. In Clay County, 195 overseas ballots, mostly military, were locked in a vault. ``I voted for Bush,'' said Army Staff Sgt. Bill Wyman, who said he was in the Middle East and is from Jacksonville. ``My vote is probably somewhere between here and Florida. That's one vote that could make a big difference.'' In descending order after Israel, Miami-Dade sent out 20 ballots to England, 17 to Costa Rica, 16 to Spain, 13 to Canada and 10 to France. Forty-six percent of those requesting ballots in Miami-Dade were Republicans, and 42 percent were Democrats. In Broward County, an elections clerk said one survey showed 1,289 overseas ballots were mailed and 257 had not come back. But a second list showed 1,623 ballots mailed. That second list showed 575 ballots requested by Democrats, of whom 114 were military and 461 were civilian; 596 ballots requested by Republicans, of whom 209 were military and 387 were civilian; and 452 requested by independents, of whom 119 were military and 333 were civilians.
the mystery 333 who stole the election for gore
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 21:53:13 (EST)
My two cents are: AP:"Hours after a Florida judge issued a complicated ruling on the controversy, Mrs. Harris said her office was requiring officials in Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade counties to explain the ``facts and circumstances'' that support their desire to proceed with manual recounts She set a 2 p.m. Wednesday deadline for the counties to reply." Good, she is preserving the argument that there has to be a machine or tabulation system error before the canvassing committee can order a full hand recount. This is the next battleground. These counties have not met the condittion precedent to ordering a hand recount without a showing of system or tabulation method error. Dem Roberts railroaded a vote through without clarifying that distinction but LePore admitted it was for human error, not machine error. that is partly why the Judge on the canvassing committee voted not to allow a hand recount. This is important.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 21:23:01 (EST)
My two cents are: Looks like it was a pretty good day for cut and paste. Got almost the whole Drudge report.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 20:31:11 (EST)
My two cents are: U.S. Senator RETURNS AS OF 04:13 PM - 11/14/2000 Candidate/Party Key Votes Overall % Maria Cantwell - D 1,008,479 48.32% Slade Gorton - R 1,024,496 49.09%
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 20:25:03 (EST)
My two cents are: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20001113/us/florida_recount_c34.html
This Babe stems the tide of Demspinsters.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 20:24:01 (EST)
My two cents are: "I created teh chads on the ballots, too." AL GORE 11/8/2000
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:56:09 (EST)
My two cents are: "In the year 2000, I took the initiative in creating the Palm Beach County butterfly ballot." AL GORE 11/8/2000

- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:55:20 (EST)
My two cents are: No, it wouldn't be ironic if the House has to choose the president. Goes with the territory, full moon or no.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:46:53 (EST)
My two cents are: That's a real knee-slapper about Gore inventing the electoral college. Very witty.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:43:39 (EST)
My two cents are: "I now regret having invented that darn Electoral College" AL GORE 11/8/2000

- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:40:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Wouldn't it be ironic if the House of Representatives, who impeached Clinton, is required to choose the next President? Could happen. Can you spell B-U-S-H?
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:27:50 (EST)
My two cents are: It's sort of like a Republican senator having the Book of Mormon read into the Congressional Record as a way of showing his constituents that he's on his toes. These articles are put here to show that whoever put them here is a well-informed citizen, having read the latest from Mary Mostert, Analyst, Original Sources.com.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:23:43 (EST)
My two cents are: That last cut and paste must be particularly important, because the half-ass who posted it wrote "brother" on the bottom. From each according to his abilities.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 19:18:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Other Reform Candidates Got More Votes than Buchanan By: Mary Mostert, Analyst, Original Sources, (www.originalsources.com) November 13, 2000 It has to be said. The television networks have created chaos and have tainted this election. The Television networks are where most of the people of the world, not just Americans, get their information about what happened in the election this week. First they began announcing that Al Gore had carried the State of Florida at 7:50 Eastern Standard Time, 10 minutes before the polls closed on the East Coast, an hour and ten minutes before the polls closed in the Florida panhandle, where many of the State's Republicans live and THREE hours and ten minutes before the polls closed in California, making sure that the millions of commuting Californians were told that, in effect, they may as well not bother to vote for the president. The decision had already been made for them in Florida, New York and Pennsylvania. Since then the chaos has gotten worse. In the last several days Democrats have claimed that the vote in Florida was not "fair" because of the butterfly ballot which was so "confusing" that many voters in the Palm Beach area punched a vote for Pat Buchanan instead of Al Gore. What the public has not been told is what the votes in Palm Beach was for OTHER Reform candidates. Those figures are revealing. In Palm Beach the votes for Reform candidates were as follows: President: Pat Buchanan - 3407 or .8% of the Presidential vote of 431,995 in Palm Beach U.S. House of Representatives - John McGuire - 7,546 or 2.6% of the Congressional vote of 291,934 in the 16th Congressional District in Palm Beach area. Florida State Senate - Desere' Clabo - 30,457 or 17.3% of the Florida State Senate -27th district in the Palm Beach area Florida State Senate -Sherree Lowe - 6, 167 or 4.8% of the Florida State Senate - 35th district in the Palm Beach area. With one Reform Party candidate receiving 30,457 people voting for the Reform candidate in a State Senate district in Palm Beach, it should be obvious that there is a pocket of Reform Party voters in the area. Why would it be so surprising to find 3,407 people voting for Pat Buchanan? We have heard two days of argument about that butterfly ballot. We even have the Democrats insisting that we have a third recount with counters trying to determine the "intent" of the voters whose ballots could not be counted by machine. So, how come none of the networks have pointed out the number of votes received by Reform Party candidates in other races received even higher rates of the vote in Palm Beach than Pat Buchanan? Is it incompetence or is it part of an effort to help Al Gore steal an election? According to the Division of Elections, which reports the status of the count (see: http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/StatusRpt.Asp?ElectionDate=11/7/2000) there is only one county in Florida that has not completed its recount - Palm Beach. Most people think of Palm Beach is the playground of wealthy senior citizens. In fact, in trying to explain the reason why so many Palm Beach voters voted for two presidential candidates or voted for Pat Buchanan or didn't punch the ballots for ANY candidate, the Democrats have blamed the design of the ballot. The Associated Press quoted Kenneth Rijock, a consultant to law enforcement agencies and a longtime Miami resident, as suggesting a different problem: The large number of older people in Palm Beach County also likely played a role, (Rijock) added, with many elderly voters perhaps ``not as sharp as they used to be.'' Four years ago, 14,872 Palm Beach County ballots were thrown out either because they lacked a vote for a presidential candidate or because they had two such votes. State officials said their recount showed Bush leading by 960 votes with 66 counties reporting. The 67th county, Palm Beach, is under a local court order not to certify results after a hearing on Tuesday. The order, handed down by Circuit Judge Kathleen Kroll, is the result of one of eight lawsuits filed by voters who say a faulty ballot design may have caused them to inadvertently vote for Pat Buchanan rather than Gore. Gore supporters say the number of discarded presidential votes -- 29,502 -- in Palm Beach County is clear evidence the ballot was flawed. In the 1996 election, about half that amount was thrown out. However, Duval County, which voted heavily for George Bush, announced yesterday that in Tuesday's vote, 21,942 ballots were nullified when voters punched their ballots for two candidates for president. An additional 4,967 did not vote for president or did not punch the ballot hard enough for their vote to be registered, said Susan Tucker Johnson, a spokeswoman for Duval County Supervisor of Elections John Stafford.
brother!
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:49:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Without absentees, Bush up unofficially by 290.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:44:27 (EST)
My two cents are: Wit' all due respect, Vice President Go', yo' lizard-thinka'ed prune-jowled Secretary o' State Christopha' aint da damn final controllin' legal authority on dis shit.
jj
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:44:21 (EST)
My two cents are: (CNSNews.com) - The head of a Washington, DC-based legal group is claiming that the federal judge who ruled against a request to suspend the hand counting of ballots in select Florida counties should have recused himself from the case because of a lengthy history of campaign contributions to Democrats, including Bill Clinton and Al Gore. National Legal and Policy Center President Peter Flaherty said a compilation of Federal Election Commission records by the NLPC shows that US District Judge Donald M. Middlebrooks has given more than $19,000 to an array of Democratic candidates for federal office, including $1,000 to Clinton's 1996 reelection effort. "Judges must adhere to high standards of ethics and integrity, even more so when the judge is required to effectively pick the next president of the United States," said Flaherty. "This judge failed to meet these standards." According to the FEC data collected by Flaherty's group and verified by a crosscheck of contribution records, Middlebrooks donated a total of $19,480 to various Democratic candidates and committees between 1979 and 1996.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:41:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Important Deadlines Friday, November 17 Overseas absentee ballots are due at Midnight Eastern. These ballots had to be postmarked no later than Election Day, November 7. State officials estimate 4,000-6,000 of the ballots. Saturday, November 18 Florida Secretary of State Katharine Harris is expected to certify the Sunshine State's election results - including its presidential winner - in the afternoon.
Glint <Keep Looking Ahead, Pete>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:40:08 (EST)
My two cents are: "(CBS) Florida's Secretary of State's office expects to have a final tally of the state's recounted votes in the presidential race - except for absentee ballots - sooner rather than later. The recount deadline - set by Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, who cited state law - came and went at 5 p.m. ET. Currently, Texas Gov. George W. Bush leads Vice President Al Gore by 428 votes in Florida, according to an unofficial tally by the Voter News Service - of which CBS is a member." (Has anybody told Dan Rather the bad news yet?)
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:37:02 (EST)
My two cents are: so what we have now is algore hiring OJ's lawyers and the attorney who brought down Microsoft. Gee, whataguy!
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:28:04 (EST)
My two cents are: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stocks held strong gains in late afternoon trade on Tuesday as investors emboldened by upbeat corporate earnings snatched up issues that had been battered by slowing profit growth and election uncertainty. The rally was fueled by strong financial results from British telecom giant Vodafone (VOD.L)(NYSE:VOD - news), but growing hopes that the battle between the Republican candidate, Gov. George W. Bush (news - web sites) of Texas, and the Democrat, Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites), for the U.S. presidency will be resolved soon also put investors in buying mood.
Buy! Buy! <$kaching!>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:26:20 (EST)
My two cents are: TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - The Florida Secretary of State's office hopes to have the final tally of the state's recounted votes from the Nov. 7 presidential election, excluding absentee ballots, ready at 5:30 p.m. EST Tuesday, an official said.
the fat lady's sucking down a clutch of grapes now <floop! floop!>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:23:04 (EST)
My two cents are: It looks like it was exclusively the "cold water" states that voted for Gore. http://images.foxnews.com/elections/images/electoralmap.gif
Go Big Red <Glint>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:19:17 (EST)
My two cents are: The Fat Lady's eating a ham sandwich in the green room.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:05:30 (EST)
My two cents are: It's 5 o'clock. Time's up, please pass your papers to the front of the room.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 18:02:45 (EST)
My two cents are: Good night Whatever,Sweets, go home now.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:55:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Have a great day, everyone, and take care. See y'all tomorrow. :-)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:54:58 (EST)
My two cents are: Regardless, the name "'Toine" does not refer to one specific person, it refers to a cyberspace entity, characterized by vile, vituperative, homophobic, racist, sexist rants, who also happens to be Republican. Anyone can technically be 'Toine. So, to those who remind me every day why it's good to be a Democrat by posting as the one called 'Toine, I salute you, today only.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:53:00 (EST)
My two cents are: It wasn't either of them. Someone with much more common sense.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:47:33 (EST)
My two cents are: How can you tell? (no offense, Glint, if it isn't you)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:44:26 (EST)
My two cents are: That's not Toine. It's Glint.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:43:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, 'Toine, I'd say this was a capital day for you. For the first time ever, you actually carried on a conversation without an abundance of vituperative language. By Jove, it was even coherent, for the most part. Our little 'Toine is growing up. I'm almost misty-eyed about it.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:40:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Cock-enlarger
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:38:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Is the word "penis" crude to you? I thought it was the proper terminology.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:30:23 (EST)
My two cents are: What, penis pumper?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:28:27 (EST)
My two cents are: Exactly, to be crude.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:18:09 (EST)
My two cents are: What's a "seductive mechanism?" Sounds like that penis pumper thing on "Austin Powers."
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:16:28 (EST)
My two cents are: The men use it on their gonads as a seductive mechanism to enhance their sexuality.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:11:13 (EST)
My two cents are: ".....Phil Vance, a record executive and unabashed Republican who is holding a pack of Marlboros and a Gatorade bottle, keeps waiting for the break in Gore supporters' 'Re-Vote!' chant so as to interject 'George Bush.' As he and the Gore supporters try to outshout each other in a bizarre leg-chugging civil disobedience oom-pah, I compliment him on his musicality. He comes by it naturally, he says, since his father, Paul Vance, wrote the song 'Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini.' But Vance doesn't have time to cover the rest of his father's hit parade. Sign-bearing Gore supporters have angrily surrounded him, with one gentlelady telling him to 'F� off!' A few yards away, I encounter the angry face of the Palm Beach voter. It is not a pretty sight. Sandra Tannenbaum, who sports two pairs of glasses (one resting atop her head, the other perched on her nose), sticks her mug three inches from mine and in a sing-songy drone, repeatedly chants, 'EWWWW! I smell an odor in here. It smells like Watergate here!' .... As one watches this dance of the low-sloping foreheads, it is impossible not to consider the criticism of our Founding Fathers, pilloried lately for constructing the Electoral College. Perhaps the criticism is justified. Maybe they were nothing but stone-hearted elitists in search of a device to steer the nation clear of majoritarianism, condescendingly skeptical as they were of a dim-watt, venal electorate. But spend a day with the voters of West Palm Beach, and you'll be left with a different, unpleasant suspicion: Just maybe our Founders were onto something."
By Matt Labash
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 17:10:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Indubitably, but what do Korean folks from San Fran know about Palmer's Skin Success?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:55:24 (EST)
My two cents are: He's not black, he's a fucking Korean from San Francisco.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:50:37 (EST)
My two cents are: What happened, 'Toine? You can't masticate my edifice -- excuse me, edinburgh -- anymore? If you would please renumerate the gynecological gentrification of my vas deferens intellect, I will be happy to ratify the vehicular colonoscopy of your nintendo contributions.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:48:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Deliver Us from Palm Beach When mass hysteria collides with the Constitution, the results are not pretty. By Matt Labash West Palm Beach, Florida Pushing up I-95 from Miami to West Palm Beach, along the Gold Coast of the state on which hinges the nation's presidential destiny, one puzzles over the citizenry's mental state. To survey the a.m. call-in shows is to be treated to hot blasts of dark plots and cockeyed logic. Callers are irate that George W. Bush "stole" the election. According to them, evidence of his character deficiencies and chicanery abounds. One caller soberly speculates that Bush will bring a 12-pack of Heineken to his Inaugural Ball (Gore, by contrast, can "hold his liquor"). Another charges it was incumbent upon the police in Palm Beach, where many voters seemed confused by the now infamous "butterfly ballot," to escort elderly voters into the booths to help them execute their vote. Legions of callers suggest the election was fixed by Bush's brother and their governor, Jeb. After all, says one, Jeb owed his brother�for not ratting him out when he was caught in the top rack of their bunkbed with a black girl. If the election is allowed to stand, many promise, there will be consequences. "My people will not accept [an Electoral College victory]," says one Hispanic caller, "We will revolt and go to the mountains." .....................
http://www.weeklystandard.com/magazine/mag_6_10_00/labash_feat_6_10_00.asp
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:46:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Now, if you come back and say "ho is short for honey" I'll know you're Black. A hip-hop fan, at least.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:38:49 (EST)
My two cents are: And don't call me no ho.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:37:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Man, 'Toine, you are a freak!
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:32:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Now yo' ass have embarrassed me by tellin' dat story which I thought wuz some down low between us. Sorry about da damn teddy baih' an' da damn coffee. Sorry about da damn gin an' da damn wine an' da damn grapes. It wuz plum dat I thought dat yo' ass wuz da most dime ho I had eva' met an' wanted plum t' be shaw dat I had made da damn right decision in which goat t' hitch mah wagon wit' until sweet deat' should we part.
diesel cat dude
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:31:25 (EST)
My two cents are: 'Toine, 'Toine, 'Toine. What the hell is wrong with you?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:25:54 (EST)
My two cents are: 4 most o' dis week I have been beside myself wit' concern dat Go' would fat-lady down tinkerin' wit' da damn system until da elecshun results final-like turned wassups way. Da thought o' foe mo' years o' lawlessness an' demagoguery wuz quite depressin'. Afta' everythin' dat's went down dis week, mah fears have shifted from da alarmin' prospect o' some Go' regime t' da damn mos' inevitable atmosphere o' bitterness dat will prevail in Washington regardless o' whetha' Bush o' Go' becomes president. Sheeeiit. Go's class an' race-warfare be only part o' da damn bug-up-da-ass. Fuck dat shit. He be also polarizin' da nashun through wassups endless trail o' deceit. Let me be claih'. I emphatical-like reject Florida Democratic Congress-nigga' Robert Wexla', one o' President Clinton's most obnoxious flax durin' impaichment, who ran t' da damn press an' pretended dat he had received spontaneous calls from vota's who wuz distraught ova' deir confusin' ballots. Da sainted Joe Lieber-nigga' criticized da damn Bush campaign 4 fixin' t' court while Go' had not. Yet Go's surrogates have filed eight separate lawsuits. Plum how dense do they think we be? Homie don't play dat.
mr. right on!
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:23:02 (EST)
My two cents are: I KNOW y'all wanna hear this story about this one time when I dated this country-fried fool. He was from Mississippi. Now, I had just broken up with my first boyfriend, and I was still healing. Wasn't so attracted to him, but he was nice when he asked me, and I figured it might be fun. When I said yes, he was all like, oh, it's gonna be so great, blah blah. So, this dude shows up at my door with a dozen red roses and a teddy bear. OK, not so bad. He told me to suggest the restaurant. I chose this really swanky, sophisticated Korean/Japanese restaurant in Cambridge. So, we get to the bar. I ordered a glass of wine or something. He kept pouring on the drinks that night, of course, not realizing that Black girls kick into sober mode at the first sign that our virtue may be disparaged. Anyway, he wanted a beer. He asked the bartender what kind of draft beer they have. She starts rattling off the list. When she's done, in the loudest, country-fried voice he could muster, he yells, "y'all hayve any BUUUUUUD?!?" I almost died. Then, this fool starts talking about how he can't work no chopsticks. I was like, they'll get you a fork. So, we finally leave. He proceeds to take me to the supermarket, and buys me another bouquet of roses, this big ass bag of fresh coffee, and some grapes and cheese for breakfast. All unsolicited, I might add. He drops me off, and the next day (Saturday,) he calls me, insisting that he come over and bring me some lunch. I called one of my guy friends to come over, because this dude was giving me a bad feeling. Anyway, he shows up with this Christmas ball-looking thing, because it was about Christmas time. He then proceeds to buy me a bottle of gin, a bottle of vodka, two bottles of wine, "Toy Story" on video, two pizzas, and a whole bunch of other shit I can't remember. I told him I couldn't accept. He said he wanted to spoil me so I would know what kind of treatment I should expect from the next man. Gee, thanks guy, but my mama already taught me how to be a lady. I cut him loose when he started talking about buying me a gold chain and a painting for Christmas/my birthday. Turns out that this fool was actually ENGAGED, and was just trying to pay down on a piece!! What a bastard, can you believe it?! Good thing I didn't even kiss him.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:17:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
I be from da inna' hood too, goat, so's gimme some braik alraidy. Word.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:12:57 (EST)
My two cents are: news: "The bulls remain in control as the Nasdaq looks to end its six session losing streak."
In other words, Da bulls remain in control as da Nasdaq peeks t' fat-lady its six session losin' straik.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:11:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Damn strait! Ebony folks have moved down in da world. We duzn't need such products as Macassah' an' Dax t' tame our 'fro anymo'.
aint dat da damn troof
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:08:09 (EST)
My two cents are: You know, you sound kind of country. I don't mess with country-fried fools, you know. I'm from the city.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:06:46 (EST)
My two cents are: I didn't main t'offend yo' ass, yo' ass pretty goat. Step off, Pharoah.
it be mah 'toine t' boogie wit' yo' ass
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:05:49 (EST)
My two cents are: I appreciate you thinking of me as a fly delosis, though. :-)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:03:33 (EST)
My two cents are: George Bush be some true winna' an' we aint fixin' t' let anyone bite da damn elecshun from him.
Secy "Cool" Baker
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:01:35 (EST)
My two cents are: No offense, but I have a man. Not that I would get with you anyway. Will you leave me alone now?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:01:04 (EST)
My two cents are: I think dat Go' should plum resign, yo' ass sexy ebony ho.
soulmate
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 16:00:20 (EST)
My two cents are: let me fill your cavity with my drill and then 'feel' your 'whole' inside.
dentist long john, excellent dancer
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:57:36 (EST)
My two cents are: I think fly delosis meant an attractive, nay, adequate, woman, but I'm not sure.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:56:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Maybe back in 1954, "conking" meant that. It's called a relaxer or perm. Only women, gay guys and Al Sharpton straighten their hair.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:54:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Now, ma bru-tha, what be gettin rid of razor bumps? Cuz I be needin to know, ya know?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:53:02 (EST)
My two cents are: I understand that among the Negroes, "conking" refers to straightening of the hair.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:51:46 (EST)
My two cents are: OK, are you Black or something? Only Black people have heard of Palmer's Skin Success.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:51:08 (EST)
My two cents are: My only question is, what exactly is a fly delosis?
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:48:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Ya know - I like to get serious for just a minute chere baybeh. By de thousands people are turnin' to da rich foamy mellocutions of Palmer's Skin Success Soap. Ya whips up ya soothin' foamy mellocution an' allows it to remain on an' luxurize three minutes. Now...here's what dis gentle foamy mellocutions do: it relieves de irritations of upset...skin, blackheads, rashes, and pimples. it act as a deodarant removin' de skin back-teh-rye-uh chief cause of ah-ffensive cool cat puhspuhration odor an' it hygenically cleanses luv-ly complexions an' soothes with its lano-lin! Toooo-day! Only twenny five cents at drug and toiletrie counters! "Rock me mama in your big Hollywood bed 'til my face's clear o' them cherry red fur-uncles!
i copy 10-4 but still can't figure out no 'lection ballot
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:48:12 (EST)
My two cents are: You meant if homeboy had a gig, he could avoid the po-po/5-0/pigs, rake in the benjamins, and cop some fly kicks. (I don't know what "getting your hair conked" means, nor do I know what the last line means, either.)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:46:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Whoever wins is going to be a laughing stalk. Gore stands a much better chance against Hillary in '04 if he loses.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:45:37 (EST)
My two cents are: Togged with beastly ground smashers?!?! Hoo hoo!! Oh man, I almost crapped myself!
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:43:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Let me carve your knob?!?! Ha ha HA!!! That is too funny. Don't quit your day job, though. :-)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:42:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Wow. Well, Black folks have moved up in the world. We don't need such products as Macassar and Dax to tame our hair anymore.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:41:47 (EST)
My two cents are: Okay kats and kittens get on your boppin' mittens! Here's some hip babble for you rabble. I'm gonna freak and squeak 'til I crack my beak! Now let me carve your knob. For instance, the Doc might say that if he had a pony to ride, he could domino the nabbers, cop some presidents, gas his moss, and get togged with some beastly ground smashers. Translation: If he had a job, he could avoid the police, make some money, get his hair conked, and buy some new shoes. Then he'd be mellow to puff down the stroll where he'd motivate his piechopper to latch on to a fly delosis.
whatsoever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:40:37 (EST)
My two cents are: I meant it makes you feel smart. :-)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:40:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, if Bush wins, then Al should concede. Undoubtedly will, too, if Bush wins. There's as art to this, because you want to make His Fraudulence as clearly fraudulent as possible, but you don't want to push it too far and upset the yokels. Either one of them would be a caretaker until 2004.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:36:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Macassar was a brand name. I don't know exactly, but assume it was made in America, or possibly England, since the word doesn't show up as of foreign derivation in my dictionary.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:33:00 (EST)
My two cents are: "Makes you feel special, doesn't it?" - Whatever. That depends on what the meaning of the word "special" is. ;-)
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:30:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore Concession Urged if Bush Wins by KATHERINE PFLEGER Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- More than two of three voters think Texas Gov. George W. Bush should become president if he prevails in Florida, even by the slimmest of margins, a new poll says. A victory in the Sunshine State would give either Bush or Vice President Al Gore the coveted 25 electoral votes necessary to win the White House. Should Bush be declared the winner in Florida after recounts of presidential ballots there, more than two-thirds of voters also say Vice President Al Gore should concede and not contest the outcome in court, says the poll released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press.
What Does Zogby Say, John? <Glint>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:28:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Well curl my tail and call me Porky (or Petunia.) Learn something new every day. What country does "macassar" come from?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:27:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Thanks, Glint. :-) Aw, damn, I miss those days of teaching developers to use my API. I love the look they get in their eyes, like "you're so special that you know how to do this," when it probably wasn't that big of a deal to you. Makes you feel special, doesn't it?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:26:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Macassar is a kind of hair oil. An antimacassar is a cloth you put on the back of the chair or the couch to keep the hair grease from staining the fabric. You should be knitting them for your beau, if he's conked.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:25:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Yo. Judge rules on law, not on political affiliation. Joey Boils is doomed.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:23:20 (EST)
My two cents are: "Just happens that 6 out of the 7 Supreme Court Justices in Fla. are democrats." (Anonymous) "....But some are very conservative ideologically, said ABCNEWS analyst George Stephanopoulos."
the rest of the story
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:17:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Good one at 14:47:10, Coppertone. Very funny. ;-)
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:12:12 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm back. Had to councel some developers on how to use an application interface (API) I wrote a couple years ago. Those were the days. Spent a couple months working on it at home and got to watch dawn 'till dusk coverage live coverage of the historic impeachment hearings while banging out page after page of computer code. So far the Florida "crisis" pales by comparision in terms of raw entertainment value.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:10:16 (EST)
My two cents are: Just happens that 6 out of the 7 Supreme Court Justices in Fla. are democrats.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:08:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Only 51% voted,Fuck the number over that.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:06:27 (EST)
My two cents are: There is no arbitrariness if she simply stays with ehr statement as the Judge found that the deadline stands. SOS will accept NO late counts and therefore will not be arbitrary. However, if she accepts ANY, then she cannot be arbitrary. The SOS ahs said what she will do. This reads to me like an effort to allow handcounting just to see what if and preserve the handcounts done by counties in teh event they show a change. Then on appeal, the Fla. Supreme Court could say that the 5 pm deadline is impractical when there has been a finding that a hand recount needs to be done but there is not enough time to do one. A Judge cannot normally make this kind of statutory construction, but must follow state law. However, a liberal Supreme court could very easily extend the deadline if the statute is impossible of performance. That is why it is critical to attack the basis for the recount in the first place. There had to be a finding of a machine or tabulation system error before ordering handcounts. In Palm, that never happened. They specifically found human error, not machine. In the end, the secty of State will certify the results from 5 pm, wait for absentees on Friday and declare a winner on Saturday. If the Fla. supreme court rules before then otherwise, then there will be a huge internal constitutional crisis in Florida between the Executive branch SOS and the Judicial branch which only the US Supreme court may be able to resolve.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 15:01:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Did I say "disapproved?" I meant approved. Almost pulled a Pete by not checking my work.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:53:57 (EST)
My two cents are: It was about 63%.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:50:32 (EST)
My two cents are: The author of the aforementioned article stated that over 60% of American voters feel that the electoral college should be revamped. That's the same percent of people who disapproved of Clinton on his worst day.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:50:16 (EST)
My two cents are: What is a macassar, by the way? I can't find it in the dictionary.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:48:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Some of the voters are quite happy with the electoral college this year, since it saved junior's ass.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:48:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Jesus, guy, does the poker up your butt have a poker up its butt?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:47:10 (EST)
My two cents are: I think whatever should not have flirted with either gentleman, either the excellent dancer or the mediocre dancer. She should have stayed in the parlor crocheting anti-macassars for her beau.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:45:57 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, neither we nor the author was stating that the Senate should be abolished. However; we must address the fact that a lot of voters are not happy with the electoral college system as it stands. The bigger (by population) states wouldn't steamroll the smaller ones, but the electoral college would more adequately reflect the population and its concentration. Isn't that on which the number of Reps in Congress, and the electoral college itself, were based?
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:43:02 (EST)
My two cents are: I saw MSNBC reporter Laurie Singer report the decision, and her voice was shaking with an almost orgasmic note of triumph. I haven't seen such biased media coverage since the last time Mara Liasson flickered her brow.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:41:40 (EST)
My two cents are: And Jeb will be out on his ass before he can see if his father can work it so he can stay.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:39:31 (EST)
My two cents are: "The author believes that the electoral college system should be revamped ...[because]... the current system allows for les populous states to have more electoral 'pull' than they should" - Whatever. I think that was exactly one of the reasons it was formed, so that the big states (by population) couldn't steamroll the smaller ones. They should review all the issues, but I think this would be the wrong way to fix it. What's the Dem catch word of the day that applies here, "disenfranchize?" If that argument is taken to its logical conclusion, then we may as well abolish the Senate as well. Why should a po-dunk state like Nevada get two Senators, same as California?
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:38:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, the Fla. Supreme Court could say that the deadline is impractical when there has been a finding that a hand recount needs to be done but there is not enough time to do one. A Judge cannot make this kind of statutory construction. However, a liberal court could very easily. That is why it is critical to attack the basis for the recount in the first place. There had to be a finding of a machine or tabulation system error before ordering handcounts. In Palm, that never happened. They specifically found human error, not machine. In the end, the secty of State will certify the results from 5 pm, wait for absentees on Friday and declare a winner on Saturday. If the Fla. supreme court rules before then otherwise, then there will be a huge internal constitutional crisis in Florida between the Executive branch SOS and the Judicial branch which only the US Supreme court may be able to resolve.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:38:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Relax, Glint, you're going to break out in boils if you keep obsessing about this.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:35:10 (EST)
My two cents are: "what banned board" - Anonymous@14:25:41. Reference November 09, 2000 at (1) 14:49:59 and (2) 15:18:12 for available details.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:34:54 (EST)
My two cents are: So, I read this Op-Ed in the Globe today. The author believes that the electoral college system should be revamped, not eradicated. He said that the current system allows for les populous states to have more electoral "pull" than they should. For example, he states that Massachusetts has 10 times the population than Alaska, but because the electoral votes are made up of # of House reps AND # of Senators, Alaska has 3 electoral votes, Mass. has 12. Thus, Mass. only has 4 times the electoral votes, even though it has 10 times more of the population. This is how Bush can win a number of less populous states, yet, still be able to acheive an electoral victory. The author maintains that we should remove the 2 senatoria to acheive an electoral victory. The author maintains that we should remove the 2 senatorial votes. In the previous example, we'd have Mass. at 10, Alaska at 1, which reflects the po Florida to Bush, Bush would have 211 in this model, and Gore would have 240. This also reflects the "razor thin" lead Gore has over Bush in the popular vote. I believe this model would be absolutely perfect. I can't imagine anyone having a contention with this, other than the less populous states.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:31:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
14:29:25=John�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:31:02 (EST)
My two cents are: ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! blubber() *spittle* spattle )twitch( drooooll......
Cher
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:29:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Partisan republican shill Secy of State goes down for Bush.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:29:25 (EST)
My two cents are: what banned board
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:25:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, by the way, I'm back on the banned board now. I didn't see the news, but I saw the message. Is it true, did it really happen this way <grin>: " MSNBC reporter ,Laurie Singer, started to cry, her voice shaking when she read the verdict upholding the Sec of State's ruling. I have never seen or heard such outright bias. This happened 10 mins ago." (antihillary)
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:21:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Hole #2, #3, #5 and even Ydog's favorite hole -- Buchanan's -- won't make any difference now. The only hole that matters now is the one that the democRATS will be running down! Four hours to appeal the 5 p.m. deadline. Gorebots are shopping around for judges. Let's hope that the law holds and doesn't snap.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:19:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush knew the Judge had to do the right thing that is why they came out and asked for surrender before the troops slaughtered the Democrat spin. It is sickening to watch the media cover this in total emotion, no reason. No clue. This is an eye opener for liberal media bias. Relentlous. Unreal.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:14:48 (EST)
My two cents are: (CNSNews.com) - Five Florida voters are preparing a lawsuit against the major broadcast networks, major cable news outlets and the exit polling service they used in projecting Al Gore the winner of the Florida presidential election before the polls had closed in their state. The plaintiffs, all of whom live in the Florida panhandle region of the state, claim they were "disenfranchised by the networks' wrongfully projecting a Gore victory in Florida on Election Night before polls closed," where they live, according to a statement announcing the lawsuit. Defendants in the suit include ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC and FOX News, as well as the Voter News Service, which conducted voter exit polling on behalf of the networks on Election Day. Early projections of a Gore victory were broadcast before polling places in parts of the panhandle that are in the Central Time Zone had closed. The initial vote tally in Florida showed Texas Governor George W. Bush winning the state's 25 electoral votes, and a recount also showed Bush the winner. But legal disputes over the hand counting of ballots in select counties and the deadline for certification of votes has further clouded the outcome of the election. "If the hand recounts make a difference in the results and give Florida to Gore, the individuals who did not vote before want another opportunity to vote," read the statement. Attending the scheduled 5:30 EST news conference on the steps of the courthouse in Panama City, Florida, are voters Michael Watson, Paul Jenkins and Jack Ayers of Panama City, all of whom say they had heard that Gore won the election and did not vote because of that news. Plaintiff Greg Bird of Port Santo, Florida, is making the same claim, and Panama City voter Faith Stewart is alleging that her vote was "diluted" because of the incorrect projection of a Gore victory.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:13:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Life is like a box of chocolate covered cherries. You never know what you'll find if you count them. Something different each time. One, two, twelve, fifteen, eight....<duuuuh>
Forrest Gore
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:11:18 (EST)
My two cents are: We're sorry that was you too, Pete.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:10:54 (EST)
My two cents are: The fun is just beginning. I see the recount continuing even if it may ultimately be disallowed. Quite a spectacle if Gore wins but doesn't win.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:09:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Time for Gore to do the right thing and flip-flop. It's what America has come to expect from the man.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:03:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry, that was me.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:03:08 (EST)
My two cents are: The only wiggle room is that the sect'y of state in its "may" discretion cannot arbitrarily ignore late filed hand recounts. I think this was meant to address an earlier case where the results were phoned in, but the paper results not received for 3 days. In the end, this deadline holds because handcounts were never authorized in the first place without a finding of system or tabulation machine error. You make the deadline or you don't.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:02:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Judge Upholds Ballot Deadline Tuesday, November 14, 2000 � More Election Stories and Video A Florida judge on Tuesday upheld a 5 p.m. deadline for all counties to report the results of last week's presidential elections, effectively cutting short the ballot-recount process in several disputed counties. Judge Terry Lewis said the decision was up to the discretion of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, who has so far refused to extend the deadline. "The process of counting and recounting the votes cast on Election Day must end," she wrote Monday.
a snippet <Glint>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:01:13 (EST)
My two cents are: A Florida judge on Tuesday upheld a 5 p.m. deadline for all counties to report the results of last week's presidential elections, effectively cutting short the ballot-recount process in several disputed counties. <http://foxnews.com/election_night/111400/trail.sml>
Glint <it's the law>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 14:00:32 (EST)
My two cents are: OK, the Judge did the right thing. One honest Democrat in america.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:55:43 (EST)
My two cents are: The real question is, how can the judge rule on the injunction if Volusia has already finished its count? It would be moot. So, how can the judge extend the deadline in Volusia?
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:50:59 (EST)
My two cents are: It will be interesting also to see if the Sect'y of State invokes the Executive Branch power to disregard any Judicial Branch decisions on the deadline. I fail to see how a clear, unambiguous statute can be disregarded unless they find a conflict with the hand recount statute insofar as it cannot be performed without an extension of time. However, if the handcounts are not authorized in the first place because there has been no finding of a machine or system error, then there can be no legitimate basis to request an extension. I hope they have the best lawyers on this. The Dems certainly do, judging by how fudged up the truth ahs become and spun liberally.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:50:06 (EST)
My two cents are: "So far three Fla judges have recused themselves" - E. E, because of the dirty democratic tricks it will be necessary henceforth to specify the specific case of which you speak. Isn't this simply the meritless suit brought by one of the blind/midget/drunk voters "confused" by the ballots who couldnt' see over the hump between their eyes? Not like this is one of the really "big" cases going on, is it?
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:45:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, and Glint, here is the ruling by the canvassing board about the Democrat fiasco to order a recount based solely on a finding of human error, not machuine error: ""Unless the discrepancy between the number of votes determined by the tabulation system and by the manual recount of four precincts is caused by incorrect election parameters or software errors, the county canvassing board is not authorized to manually recount ballots for the entire county," These liberals will say and do anything.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:39:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 WEST PALM BEACH -- A federal lawsuit filed here Monday says George W. Bush and Dick Cheney can't legally claim Texas' 32 electoral votes because both are inhabitants of the state -- a violation of the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The amendment prohibits a state's electors from voting for both a president and vice president from their state. Cheney has lived and worked in Texas for eight years but switched his voter registration to Wyoming in July to try to avoid the constitutional conflict. That's not good enough, says the suit filed by Lawrence A. Caplan, 42, a Boca Raton lawyer. Merely moving one's voter registration doesn't meet the legal definition of being an "inhabitant," Caplan argues.
more dirty tricks by democrats covering the walls with their spluttering shit
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:38:53 (EST)
My two cents are: This is really weird, isn't it Pete. How about a class action lawsuit against gore for the $trillions that have bled out of the stock market during the past week since his Wednesday morning flip-flop? <> Carroll County had a 7e bucket of popular vote for Dubya.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:35:54 (EST)
My two cents are: So now we hear that 7 Fla counties have already recounted votes by hand,6 of them republican counties. So stop bitching.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:34:45 (EST)
My two cents are: (CNN) George W. Bush's campaign today suggested a way to resolve Florida's contested election, pledging to accept the results of manual recounts in scattered counties if Al Gore would agree to a halt in the counting at the 5 p.m. EST deadline set by state election officials.
are you listening, al? do you want this thing resolved or not?
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:32:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, you know nothing works like one of your open letters, Pete.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:32:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi Glint, yes I spent a half hour yesterday emailing that argument to anyone who would hear. Those Dems violated the law in ordering a handcount. We'll see how the "liberal" spin tries to change the rule. Just like "shall" menas it must be done by 5 pm. Liberals, by definition, are not literal or strict. They simply bend the rules. It should be no mystery that they do not like these rules which do not allow them to cherry pick counties that will selectively favor him. Fair is fair. Either we stand with both counts already done or we recount everything. The latter is not possible under Florida law. Unless a liberal judge bends the rule.
Pete�
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:26:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Almost a full 2/3rds of the people want the recount to continue until it is resolved. Only 50% of the people voted so now the ones who didn't vote are stcking their noses in with crys of ,"no Recount" Fuck them. They lost their right to bitch by not voting.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:25:51 (EST)
My two cents are: True, perhaps the use of the word "normal" was less than adequate. Must be my Ebonics showing.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:24:09 (EST)
My two cents are: A boil is not normal. Common, maybe, but not normal.
a boil is a boil
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:23:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Suggest Bush's facial staph infection reflects significantly lowered immune system functioning.
Stressed Out
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:21:57 (EST)
My two cents are: The Judges ruling is about to come down.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:21:39 (EST)
My two cents are: The acne is bad enough, 'Toine. We don't need to hear about the boils.
not feeling your pain thanks
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:20:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Have you a lot of boils, 'Toine?
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:17:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, by the way, did I neglect to mention that we entered the club without having to pay a cover charge? Yes, yes.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:14:23 (EST)
My two cents are: They may be normal, but they sure aren't attractive, are they? Unless you're into boils.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:13:28 (EST)
My two cents are: from drkoop.com: A furuncle (boil) is a skin infection involving the entire hair follicle and the adjacent subcutaneous tissue. Staph bacteria are normally found on the skin surface. Damage to the hair follicle allows the bacteria to enter deeper into the tissues of the hair follicle and the subcutaneous tissue. Furuncles may occur in the hair follicles anywhere on the body, but they are most common on the face, neck, armpit, buttocks, and thighs. Almost everyone experiences boils at some time.
so the good dr koop says it's normal for normal people to get them, so b.f.d. <q: is E a normal person?>
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:10:11 (EST)
My two cents are: See, it doesn't have the same punch without the colloquialisms. Same way I feel about hip-hop music.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:03:19 (EST)
My two cents are: I had gone to the weekly social gathering with a contemporary of mine previously, on the first night it had started. It was more mediocre than adequate. However; another associate of mine had gone again, and had reported that it was more than adequate, and would probably be that way in future gatherings. Thus; I decided to investigate this social gathering with yet another associate. It was to our advantage to do so. // Bye, E.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 13:00:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Would you prefer plain English? OK. I had a really keen weekend. I tripped the light fantastic with a plethora of adequate-looking gentlemen. I would have increased my social network by leaps and bounds; however, I prevented that by announcing to those interested that I am currently involved in a relationship. I was dancing with a mediocre gentleman, and another gentleman with whom I was dancing previously put his arm around my waist. When I performed a 180-degree turn, he smiled at me adequately, and rubbed my arm. I should have ceased to dance with the mediocre man, because the man who was quite adequate-looking was also very adept at dancing. All in all, it was quite adequate, neat and keen.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:56:54 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't think I used the word "furuncle" when I emailed Bush. I think I referred to his weasly ways in other words. I am happy to have my email go into the consciousness of his staff--assuming they possess consciousness, that is. // Yeah, Whatever, looks like NM is back in Gore's column. They need to take the time to fight all this shit out, but Junior can't stand the wait. He's afraid the Divine will send him another furuncle. In response to the reptile Repub deal, Gore ought to counter-offer Bush a deal whereby if Gore becomes President by 5PM today, God stops sending plagues to Texas. Gotta go. Later.
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:53:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, it's not really Ebonics, just slang, colloquialisms, if you will. I was thinking I should have just posted that in plain English, but it wouldn't have had the same punch.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:48:34 (EST)
My two cents are: So far three Fla judges have recused themselves. The first, Stephen A. Rapp, recused himself after a lawyer for several voters claimed that the judge made derogatory comments last week about the Democrats and Palm Beach county voters. (sound familiar, Fornigators?). "In a signed affidavit, one lawyer said he overheard Judge Rapp saying, in a courthouse elevator on Election Day, that by voting he was doing his part to 'make sure the Democrats are run out of the White House.' He also allegedly made a negative comment about Hillary Rodham Clinton, the lawyer said. In another signed affidavit, a seoncd lawyer said he heard Judge Rapp saying, from the brench, at 8:20 AM on Nov. 8 that anyvoter who mistakenly voted for the wrong presidential candidate was "stupid" and did not deserve the right to vote." Bye bye, Judge Rapp.
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:48:10 (EST)
My two cents are: Dear Anon@12:34:01, I noticed the clever use of the word "fan" in your e-mail, no doubt to enable it to squeak past the plastic singer's e-mail filters. Ingenious!
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:46:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Dade County votes 3-0 to start manual recount just after Baker comes out with his slanted demand that the Dems accept the 5pm deadline. In NM it was a swing of 1000 voten NM it was a swing of 1000 votes in favor of Gore as the 500 hed been counted for Bush the first time. Now Gore has just about locked up NM, again, further frustrating the republicans. In Iowa it is over as well. So it breaks down to the 10000 no vote,(by Machine) votes for president in Dade County that they are starting the test count on right now.Lites out at noon when the Jufges decision comes down, in favor of extending the deadline.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:44:16 (EST)
My two cents are: That nightclub post from Whatever was just showing off her ebonics the way Pete shows off his French.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:41:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Dear Uncle Furuncle: The way to beat the E-vil socialsits is the revenues, stupid. Foop!
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:39:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Does it filter out "E-vil socialsit?" How about "foop?" "It's the revenues, stupid?"
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:37:28 (EST)
My two cents are: dear cher, fuck you! go to hell! a fan.
my e-mail to cher
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:34:01 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey, E. Now, they found another bag of votes? Cripes. And they gave this state to Bush from Gore? What a bunch of bullshit. Give it to Shrubbie. He's dead in the water anyway.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:33:00 (EST)
My two cents are: E, I'm certain Bush isn't afraid to read his e-mail but have confidence that his staff applies certain text filters (either machine or by hand count) that may route messages to to the "kook bin" when certain words wuch as "furuncle", "vile", or "yammeringsare present, rather than absent. yes/no - route/don't route. Can't get much simpler than that. Into the yuck bucket ya go.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:32:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Among the critical issues to be resolved in local courts is a request from Vice President Al Gore and two counties to give more time for recounting votes beyond a 5 p.m. Tuesday deadline that could stretch into the weekend in Palm Beach County. The Florida Democratic Party sued the Palm Beach County Canvassing Board on Monday evening, challenging the board's method of reading the ballots. The party wants ``pregnant chads'' _ dimpled fragments not detached from the card--counted as votes. Democrats prepared to go to court in Broward County to overturn a decision by officials there not to order a countywide manual recount. The county's canvassing board decided Monday against the recount, after counting a sample of votes by hand in three precincts and finding no major discrepancies.
thieves in action
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:22:03 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, Glint, your coward Junior Bush is afraid to read those emails, just like he's afraid to face the real vote, but his guilty conscience shows all over his face. Espcially in that one spot.// Hey, Whatever. Somebody found another bag of votes for Gore in New Mexico. Seems like they should just take their time and get the whole thing right. Except the only thing Republicans think is right is if Dem votes aren't counted. That guy Delahunt won here over Johnston because of counting not just hanging chads, but dimpled and preganant chads, too. Pubbies can't take it that their boy's such a loser.
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 12:15:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, the thing is that folks aren't satisfied. Bush shouldn't have a problem with this, since he's come out on top of both counts. That way, it'll give more legitimacy to His Fraudulence's election. Maybe he could even get something passed before he's voted out in 2004.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:57:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Man, too bad "America's Funniest Home Videos" isn't on anymore. You could have won $10,000. :-)
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:54:59 (EST)
My two cents are: "Blunders bubble up in Iowa; Gore edge is hundreds lower" By JONATHAN ROOS, JOHN McCORMICK and LYNN OKAMOTO Des Moines Register Staff Writer 11/14/2000 Texas Gov. George W. Bush has cut into Vice President Al Gore's lead in Iowa by 889 votes, based on a revised count Monday of presidential balloting in nearly two-thirds of the state's 99 counties. Gore had a 5,069-vote lead in Iowa, according to unofficial election night returns. A new survey of county auditors by The Des Moines Register shows Gore's lead has dropped to 4,180, in an election in which more than 1.3 million Iowans voted. Bush received a big boost from Sioux County, where officials reported a data entry error had resulted in inflated totals for Gore. The state's total vote margin is almost certain to change again today when more votes are officially reported. The Register survey showed Bush picking up 2,131 votes statewide, compared with 1,242 for Gore. The survey represents roughly 52 percent of the ballots cast in Iowa for the two candidates.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:52:53 (EST)
My two cents are: "I think Repubs and Dems should come together, recount the whole state of Florida, certify the shit, and let's go." - Whatever. Been there, done that already. The process was automatic, and Bush still came out on top. Cute story about the fashion show. Reminds me a marching band competition I went to about 10 days ago. At my old high schools the bands weren't into competition. However, we had a different show each week, and always traveled to the away games. The kids' school is different. They do one show per year, repeat it at each home game, and it's supposed to keep getting better. They do fancy stuff like marching backwards and waggling their hands, and that sort of crap. Anyway, at this one competition there was a band from New Jersey. There were two lines marching, one forward and one backward. When the lines met the baritone sax player, who was marching backwards, tripped over someone's foot and landed square on his butt and then rolled up onto his back. The great thing was I had been following the guy with the camcorder and got the shot, perfect! Now, if I could only add a sound effect, like >BONK!<
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:40:09 (EST)
My two cents are: The other thing that I forgot to say yesterday is that on Friday, I was so depressed from all this political mumbo-jumbo. I called my mother, and we talked for hours about how messed up this whole thing was. I really wanted to go get my party on and shake what my mama gave me, but all the clubs in Boston were getting kind of wack. I had went to this one place the first night it opened, and it was a'ight. My friend told me; however, that it's off the hook now. So, we went. Apparently, everyone had a little frustration to let go of, because when we got there, there were a ton of dudes, a ton of chicks, everyone was dressed to the nines, the beats were perfect, and everyone was friendly. We danced for hours and hours and hours. I would have gotten some numbers too, if I didn't player-hate myself and tell folks I had a man. I was dancing with this guy, who promptly left after I answered his "can I get your number" question with "nothing personal, but I have a boyfriend," and this other fine ass guy, who I was dancing with before, came up behind me, grabbed me by my waist, and was dancing with me frmo behind. When I turned around, he smiled a big, beautiful smile at me and rubbed my arm playfully, and walked off. Damn, I should have dissed that fool I was dancing with and started dancing with the cutie, because he was a good dancer. Haven't had that good of a time in a while. So, I had a great weekend.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:30:36 (EST)
My two cents are: For once you've figured it out, Glint. An e-mail to Bush goes into the bucket. The best way to avoid the bucket is a few large to a favored PAC, maybe membership in the Oilman's Benevolent Society.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:30:02 (EST)
My two cents are: ''I looked up Junior's Texas State website and shot him an email telling him exactly what I thought of him and his furuncle and his vile cowardly lawsuits and false party-line yammerings about the "subjectivity" of a punched hole being present or absent. Yes/no. On/off. One can hardly get more digital than that.'' - E. Pretty smart of Bush to put a shiny shiny button on his website that pipes directly into the bit bucket. Attracts them just like one of those shiny bass lures.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:26:58 (EST)
My two cents are: See, Glint, Democracy in action isn't as bad as the Republicans fear. Sometimes they get as many or more votes than the other guy, despite their distrust of the voters.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:24:55 (EST)
My two cents are: "In Polk's Early Recount, Bush Gains 104; Gore, 7 Monday, November 13, 2000 By JOHN CHAMBLISS The Ledger LAKELAND -- Texas Gov. George W. Bush gained 104 votes in Polk County, while Vice President Al Gore gained seven votes..." - Anon@some-time-or-another. Do you suppose this could be also happening in Palm Beach County and might be the reason they decided to stop the manual recount. Maybe Bush was found to be getting closer to receiving a mandate in Florida. <> Morning, Coppertone.
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:20:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Who was the one who said the Repubs shoot themselves in the foot every time? I mean, if they had nominated McCain, he would have swept the whole election clean. But no, they have to pick fratboy Bart Simpson Mini-Bush. Remember Dole back in '96? Wasn't that ridiculous? Now, all the pundits are saying that any real reform of Social Security, Medicare, education, etc., is dead in the water. Whoever wins will have to stay the course, and be nice and centrist, lest he face the wrath of 50% of the American people who will feel as though the President cheated in the election. They said the one of the Presidents who won the electoral college but not the popular, I think it was Harrison, they used to call him "His Fraudulence." Whoever wins this one will be no less fraudulent in the eyes of more or less 50% of the people. Gore doesn't want this win. He doesn't! That's why he looks so upbeat. He knows he's giving this one to Bush, he's just really fucking with him, so Shrubbie knows what he's up against and will not be allowed to enact any of his hare-brained schemes. Pure, unadulterated, unabashed, unequivocal genius, in my opinion.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:16:14 (EST)
My two cents are: They're probably not in different corners. The Sec. of State just had to cover her ass, because she was up for some serious vituperation from both sides if she had been the one to make the final decision about the count. This way, they can get a recount, and no one can call it a partisan move. It's actually a smart decision. They'll soon enough say that they'll recount all of Florida.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:08:13 (EST)
My two cents are: The Fla State Attorney General has ruled against the stopping of the recount so Fla State officials are in different corners. Anyway, there is another lawsuit or two now to continue.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 11:04:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh yeah, Glint, I heard about that too. However; I think the judge is supposed to be overruling the Florida Sec. of State, in that they will do the hand count. I believe that it's in everyone's best interest to recount Florida. They can do it by Dec. 18. Then, we can finally move on. Good morning to you.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 10:55:38 (EST)
My two cents are: "The REAL ISSUE here which has been ignored so far is that under Florida law a hand count can only proceed once there has been a finding of a machine or system tabulation error. NO SUCH finding has yet been made." - Pete. Congratulations, Pete. Apparently the Palm Beach County canvassing board reads this site and picked up on your post. They got cold feet and stopped counting because they realized it was unauthorized. <> And the rest of you -- you read it here first! :-)
Glint
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 10:52:17 (EST)
My two cents are: I was that little kid. Here we go with a story. I was 11, and I had to model the children's line in the church fashion show. My mother had sent me to poise school for some time, and I guess I was good, so they put me in this here fashion show. I was doing great, sashaying and chanteing. Anyway, it came time to model the dresses. I was wearing this pink satin thing with a drop waist and a little pink rose at the neckline. I'm starting to strut up on to the catwalk, and --BAM!!-- I wiped out. All I heard was everyone go "OOOOOH!!" I was SO, SO embarassed, and one of my buttons popped!! However; I kept going, sashaying and chanteing, and I held the part of the dress that had popped open. When I was done, I went backstage and cried and cried. When it was over and I came out, though, everyone hugged me and kissed me and said what a great job I did, because I kept going even though I wiped out. It made me feel a little better.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 10:42:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, good morning. So, the Florida Sec. of State upheld the 5:00 PM deadline for today. She did this to cover her ass, so that she's not labeled "partisan." Everyone's chomping at the bit to jump down her throat about being too partisan. This way, she knows the judge can override her, so she can leave it up to the judge. Smart lady. Anyway, I think Repubs and Dems should come together, recount the whole state of Florida, certify the shit, and let's go. Gore's looking pretty upbeat. Saw him, Tipper, Joe and Hassadah (sp?) going to the movies. Shrubbie, meanwhile, looks pallid, and has a boil. I give him points for trying to smile bravely in the face of adversity. Reminds me of the little kid who wipes out in the middle of his/her tap dance recital, and keeps going, and smiles bravely anyway. We all love that little kid.
Whatever
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 10:37:58 (EST)
My two cents are: Nobody complains when Toine or Pete drops a chalupa like that, why should it be any different for an independent liberal?
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 09:24:53 (EST)
My two cents are: I was just trying to help the old barnacle out, and he boiled over.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 09:21:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Gnat has it. Message addressed to you, not about you, John, as in: "John--Glint or whoever keeps posting these blah. . ." Comma made it read ambiguously. Unintentional linking.// Pete, that referred to an earlier post from you to me. Never mind, just on being the great communicator. Too bad about fratboy. You must miss McCain, even Dole.
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 09:19:04 (EST)
My two cents are: What a charming post. Are you expecting some boils, too, 2:10 anon? Morning.
E
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 09:06:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Addle-pated, popeyed old barnacle.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 02:10:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Got to go gnat. I feel Ok Could be better but I'm breathing so can't complain. Bear season is just around the corner here. Maybe this week or next. Some big black bears in this state. 600 lbs and up are plentiful according to a guy named Gary Alt, a biologist for the Game Dept. G'nite,gnat...........John�
J
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:58:13 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't know, I don't think I would trust ANY anonymous, now matter what time he or she posted.
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:45:48 (EST)
My two cents are: And how have you been, John? Is it cold there? I was in snow country for a few days. I'm glad I don't have to shovel snow here.
gnat
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:43:33 (EST)
My two cents are: I was talking to the anon who posted at 23:10:28, gnat. I didn't think it was too swift to finger me as one of the fools putting those republican screeds in here. I took a minute from the movie earlier to post one on the idiot C&P's. Its stupid to post those damn long things in here and slow up the board.........John�
J
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:33:03 (EST)
My two cents are: �I�m not like George Bush,� Al Gore told an aide in 1999, when the campaign was just gearing up. �If he wins or loses, life goes on. I�ll do anything to win.� Bush may not have been quite as driven. �If this doesn�t work out, I�ve got a life,� he told a NEWSWEEK reporter in December 1999...
Anonymous.
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:32:53 (EST)
My two cents are: John, it seemed to me that Anonymous was addressing you personally rather than including you among the C&P posters. Unless I was interpreting post incorrectly. Can't believe that Anonymous would post anything about you being a C&P person. That's not your style.//Our deer season has ended, but the bear hunters were still out in force.
gnat
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:09:30 (EST)
My two cents are: I know 4 votes in San Diego County that will be counted for Gore when they are opened......John�
J
- Tuesday, November 14, 2000 at 00:04:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Listen, Anon, you simple shit. If I post stuff you'll know about it. I sign it. i've been watching a movie for two hours..........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:56:02 (EST)
My two cents are: I have no idea what you are talking about E. Perhaps if you put a reference or relation to your barb, it might be received as you intended. But with no sense being transmitted by you, my receptors are unfortunately incapable of understanding what you say. Then again I don't believe most of what you say even when I do get your drift. Here, though, were are talking drift of continental proportions in your posts. Night.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:48:47 (EST)
My two cents are: Weren't enough republicans in Orange County to keep B1 Bomber Bob from being booted out of his House in '96.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:40:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Not to drive it into the ground, John, the child-reactionaries, who believe themselves smart enough to figure out what Mara Liasson's eyebrows are saying, are too dumb to guess that you don't get ammo-sales stats in some big national media computer that Rush Limbaugh can plug into, so you can't know that there has been a 900% increase in those sales in the past three days. Aside from their lack of mental acuity, they lack experience that doesn't come to them vicariously, either through their talk-show host or their television set, so they couldn't make the empirical connection that you made between bullet sales and hunting season. To these dudes, the world is my new rain-gutters and my new lawn-mower, and they have no contact with redneck stuff like deer-hunting. If it's not sanitized or televised or suburbanized, and run through the nasty mind of some mean right-wing pundit, its just something off in the haze of trailer parks and broom factories and people who work and sweat bills and do ugly things like shoot animals. These poor doofusses been robbed of their potential to be free-standing individuals, they been robbed of the facility for independent self-directed thought. They are victims and they should litigate.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:31:47 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey, Pete, I wouldn't expect you to actually read a post, but I said "when I was living in Asia," which refers to then, as opposed to now. Having slept at Dunster House, you're familiar with verb tenses, I hope? As it happens, WHEN I was living in Asia, it was before Gore invented the internet, and before he paved the way for state and federal governments to HAVE websites. Yes, and gratefully I thought of Gore having paved the way for government websites recently when I looked up Junior's Texas State website and shot him an email telling him exactly what I thought of him and his furuncle and his vile cowardly lawsuits and false party-line yammerings about the "subjectivity" of a punched hole being present or absent. Yes/no. On/off. One can hardly get more digital than that. 'Night, all.
E
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:31:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Ok anon 23:10:28, I'll accept that only if you accept your thinking has been formed by socialists such as Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, Mussolini, Ho and Clinton. G'night.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:19:50 (EST)
My two cents are: Wouldn't count too much on those California absentee ballots. The way your absentee ballot works in California, you go down to the registrar's office before the election, punch in your votes, and drop the ballot in the box. Yeah, you can mail it in, too, but you'll find that people organized enough to request an absentee ballot are generally organized enough to send it in early. You might also consider that heavily Republican Orange County is rapidly filling up with Mexicans, and there are vast reaches of it where it is difficult to get by without Spanish. Of course, your absentee ballots have traditionally favored Republicans, but like a lot of traditions lately that one's getting a little soft around the edges, unbeknowest to the punditry.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:19:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Stop cutting and pasting, 'Toine. While you're at it, shut up.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:18:42 (EST)
My two cents are: This newspaper failed to notice who's running scared, and who went crying wee wee wee all the way to the federal courts.
and of course we have friends on the 3rd circuit we can wrap around our fingers so take that palm beach yee haw
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:12:15 (EST)
My two cents are: John, Glint or whoever keeps posting this stuff thinks it is edifying and well-written, and that we can all profit from it. I'm afraid that this sort of bloviation is how these characters get their information on how the world is, which is another way of saying that kids like Glint and Pete and maybe H-man believe it. The crynic believes it too, but he probably counts as a kid, having pupated through the entire '70's soaked in dope, booze, and casual sex. Rather than exercise a critical facility, and trying to figure out on their own how the world works, these guys read and believe these bleats and believe it. It's hardly any wonder that they end up with the preposterous notion that the newspapers and television news are slanted against Republican yahooism, because they start out thinking these boneheaded fulminations represent objective reality. Hard to tell where it comes from, but one theory I have is that it is a failure of education influenced by McCarthyism and its residue and later by the pride that Reaganism took in willful ignorance. These poor folks have been let down by the school system, and emerged from it simply not knowing which end is up. They ought to sue somebody.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:10:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Secretary of State Bill Jones indicates that there are 1,021,000 absentee ballots outstanding in California. Of these, more than 250,000 come from heavily Republican Orange and San Diego counties. The state's counties have until November 28th to get their absentee vote in to the Secretary of State.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 23:07:49 (EST)
My two cents are: In Polk's Early Recount, Bush Gains 104; Gore, 7 Monday, November 13, 2000 By JOHN CHAMBLISS The Ledger LAKELAND -- Texas Gov. George W. Bush gained 104 votes in Polk County, while Vice President Al Gore gained seven votes when a two-day recount ended about 2:30 a.m. Sunday in Bartow. "That is a big deal in Polk County and more votes than you would expect," said County Commission Chairman Bruce Parker, one of three members of the county canvassing board. Workers finished the 90-precinct recount in the Polk County elections office as Republican and Democrat lawyers looked on. The recount will be certified at 10:30 this morning. "Right now, you can't really tell if this will have a statewide affect on the election," Parker said. When a statewide tally is determined, many county votes are a "washout" or count themselves out. The majority of the error was made in Precinct 131 in West Lakeland, where 90 of Gore's votes were counted twice.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 22:52:51 (EST)
My two cents are: This newspaper endorsed Al Gore for president because we thought he would make a better president than the less experienced, less intellectual George W. Bush. It is beginning to appear that we gave Gore too much credit. By refusing to shut down the increasingly militant threats of a blizzard of litigation challenging the voting in Florida that left Bush ahead in the unofficial totals, Gore is looking like the opportunist we had hoped he wasn't. The war of rhetoric from the Gore camp has escalated every day since the Tuesday vote. The Gore camp has made it plain it intends to litigate the election until it attains the results it wants, regardless of what effect that bullying approach creates on the country's psyche or financial markets, or in the minds of international leaders. On Saturday the Bush campaign went to court to halt hand-counting of ballots in four heavily Democratic counties. The Republicans sought a federal court order to "preserve the integrity, equality and finality" of the vote. Former Secretary of State James Baker said that with a manual re-count "human error, individual subjectivity and decisions to `determine the voters' intent' would replace precision machinery in tabulating millions of small marks and fragile hole punches." After watching the highly subjective crazy-quilt hand-counting efforts on Saturday in Palm Beach County, it is clear that Baker is right. The hand-counting process as practiced in Florida appeared to be made up of equal parts of incompetence, flip-flopping and ignorance. The Gore camp insisted that the Bush forces withdraw the attempt to obtain an injunction, but, of course, it was the Gore forces who launched this litigation blitz. Frankly, we had thought Gore was a better man than this. His own reputation is suffering increasing damage every day he permits the lawyers to continue their drumbeat of litigation threats. This behavior makes the Democratic Party look like an aggregation of crybabies. Former President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat from Georgia who is recognized as an expert on democratic elections around the world, called on both Gore and Bush to exercise patience and permit the vote counting to be certified before taking other action. Sen. John B. Breaux, a Louisiana Democrat, said it was unwise for Gore to challenge the controversial Palm Beach results in court. He called on the vice president to let the process continue "to count the votes and respect the decision." Sen. Robert Torricelli, a New Jersey Democrat, has called on Gore to avoid getting mired down in the courts: "I want Al Gore to win the election, but more than that, I want somebody to win this election. There is going to have to be a very compelling case for anybody to take this into a court of law. "It's a downward spiral. It may begin in Florida, but it can go to other states, and ultimately the presidency of the United States should not be decided by a judge." Torricelli is exactly right. This was not, and there have never been, perfect national elections. But if Gore and his supporters really desire to honor "the will of the people," they will muzzle the lawyers and stop insisting on endless re-counts.
KC Star
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 21:36:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Stop filling the site up with those idiot C&P's . ......John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 21:14:31 (EST)
My two cents are: I have a sick, sinking feeling. It's impeachment all over again. But this time it's about the results of a presidential election. Like President Clinton, Al Gore is willing to precipitate a constitutional crisis to hold on to power. The world's most successful method for transferring power is about to become another O.J. slow-speed car chase. I don't care about taxes, I don't care about abortion, I don't care about affirmative action -- I just want to be rid of these people. Al Gore's end game is to delay confirmation of the Florida vote for as long as possible -- just like his role-model of a boss would do in these circumstances. Under the 12th Amendment, the president is to be chosen by "a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed." If Gore can prevent Florida from appointing its electors by the Dec. 18, when the electors meet, Florida's electors will be excluded. Gore will win with 260 electoral votes. Gore has a number of stratagems for throwing roadblocks in the way of Florida's appointing electors, including time-consuming legal challenges. Nostalgic Stalinists from Brooklyn, N.Y., now transplanted to Florida in their dotage, have already trotted out lawsuits demanding a second chance to vote because they were confused by the ballot. It doesn't matter that these legal machinations are precisely as meritorious as President's Clinton's "Secret Service privilege" claim. If enough lawsuits are filed, maybe Gore will win the lottery on one. In any event, pointless litigation will buy him more time. The law schools are chock-full of droning professors who will attest to the legitimacy of the Democrats' phony legal claims. Having rested up from the impeachment and O.J., they're ready to tackle a presidential election. They've even dusted off the old impeachment catchphrases, condescendingly instructing the public not to make a "rush to judgment" and to "take a deep breath." As with impeachment, the spin is having its ineluctable effect: We've gone from a Bush win -- subject to a single state's recount -- to "the next president, whomever that may be." We've gone from "this will be resolved by 5 p.m. tomorrow night" to "this could take weeks." We've gone from rolling our eyes at some hapless old people claiming they slipped and voted for the wrong guy to Fox News' Morton Kondracke saying of the ballot, "Well, yeah, sure now it looks easy." We've gone from scoffing at the idea of lawsuits determining the next leader of the free world to New York Times lawyer Floyd Abrams saying that lawsuits are "part of the process." Perhaps strangest of all, the networks and Democrats have taken the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" and have begun referring to the curse as merely a "saying," a "proverb" -- even a "blessing"! We are being inured to the proposition that Bush has not won. Inured to the idea that any states and districts that Gore lost should be subject to a do-over. Inured to the idea that meaningless expressions of popular approval should prevail over constitutional mechanisms for selecting elected officials. Inured to the notion that the presidential election is not decided on Election Day or even the next day, but can sometimes be a months-long process. Once we were all shocked by the suggestion that the president could be shown to have committed felonies and still continue in office. But after a while, we got used to that, too. On Day Two of America Held Hostage, former President George Bush -- father of President-Elect Bush -- was on television commending his son for the dignity he had shown during this national emergency. Yes, Al Gore, the rube, has demanded a recount in Florida, while Bush has decorously refrained from requesting recounts in Iowa, Wisconsin and New Mexico -- three states Bush lost by a sneeze. Bush's brother, the Florida governor, courteously removed himself from involvement in the Florida recount, lorida recount, but Florida's attorney general -- who happens to be Al Gore's campaign chairman -- boorishly did not. Al Gore goes around loutishly declaring himself the popular vote champion, while Bush genteelly refrains from any such boasts. Meanwhile, Jesse Jackson is presiding over rioting in the streets. There is a movement afoot to call in Janet Reno. Maybe she could send in a SWAT team to gun down President-Elect George Bush. All we need now are chickens in the street and beggars with leprosy to complete the picture. This is no time for dignity. President Bush had dignity. Sen. Bob Dole had dignity. They lost. In particular, they lost to the two blackguards in the White House now dragging the country into yet another constitutional crisis. It will never end until these people are gone. It's time for Bush to stop acting like a lockjaw Connecticut WASP and start being a Texan.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 21:07:38 (EST)
My two cents are: I like the cartoon that asks who is favor of keeping Florida out of all future presidential elections.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 20:53:08 (EST)
My two cents are: "Gore-Friendly Media Livid Over Harris' Deadline Decision" Just minutes after Florida officials said they would enforce state election law rendering further vote recounts moot after 5 p.m. Tuesday, the media temper tantrum began. Gore friendly journalists, who realize that Florida State Secretary Katherine Harris' decision to obey the law means the vice president's White House hopes are toast, began trying to undermine her reputation immediately. On CBS News radio, every report described Harris as Florida's "Republican Secretary of State," as if the Democrats have their own state secretary who could countermand her at any moment. Reporters repeatedly said Harris was "appointed by Florida Gov. Jeb Bush," though in fact she was elected in her own right by the citizens of Florida in 1998. Rather than concentrate on the bombshell news of Harris' decision, the Associated Press led off their account of the bombshell decision with Gore campaign spin. "Al Gore's advisors denounced as 'arbitrary and unreasonable' a decision by Florida's Republican secretary of state to maintain a Tuesday deadline for certifying maunal recounts in Democratic-dominated counties," the AP began. Two paragrahs later, the wire service was quoting Gore agent Warren Christopher denouncing Harris as "politically motivated." Meanwhile, reporters have barely noted that Donald Middledrooks, the federal judge set to hear the Bush campaign's motion to halt Florida's hand re-counts, is a Clinton-Gore appointee who's been a bankrolling their campaigns since 1992. Even New York Post, which has been decrying Gore's efforts to "steal the election" with such headlines as "Stop Thief!", has been kind to Middlebrooks. While the paper reported his Democrat donations, it also noted that he has a reputation for "impartial rulings." Of course, Secretary of State Harris is getting no such benefit of the doubt from the mainstream press.
just listen to that stuck pig squeal <reeeee! reeeeee!>
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 20:11:15 (EST)
My two cents are: "Dems Knew of Tuesday Deadline Before Recount" Gore campaign officials and Florida Democrats are squealing like stuck pigs over Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris' announcement that she law requiring all domestic ballots to be filed with her office by 5 p.m. on Tuesday. But Warren Christopher and other suddenly outraged Gore aides knew about the state law Harris cited today well before Palm Beach County Democrats asked for the hand recounts they now say won't be completed by the deadline. Indeed, Secretary Harris herself, while announcing the results of the intitial machine recount during a nationally broadcast press conference last Thursday, said that Florida election law mandates that all vote counts - excluding those for overseas absentee ballots - must be completed by Tuesday. And Harris' statement, along with the facts of the law, was widely reported the next day. "The results from the hand counts must also be submitted by Tuesday, Ms. Harris said," the New York Times reported Friday. "Under the law, the counties have until Tuesday to send their official recounts to state election officials." Two days after Harris made clear her intentions to adhere to Tuesday's legal deadline, Palm Beach County Democrats began the hand recount they now say won't be finished in time.
crybabies have short term memory
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 20:09:08 (EST)
My two cents are: "Mean-Spirited Democrats Want to Lynch Their Own Elections Chief" Oh, those intolerant, Neanderthal, mean-spirited Democrats. The small minority of aged Palm Beach County liberal Democrats that claims to be too incompetent to vote correctly is ready to kill the county elections supervisor - a Democrat. The pro-Democrat Palm Beach Post on Sunday painted a glowing portrait of embattled Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore, who approved the infamous "butterfly ballot" - which of course has been used elsewhere in America without any hysteria. But the Post also included comments from the nasty condo commandos who want to throw the election to their precious Al Gore. "I'd like to string her up," one voter told the Post. "She should be shot," another raged. Goodness gracious. Imagine if LePore were a Republican.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:56:57 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/11/13/MN82185.DTL&type=science
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:55:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Florida (Bush - Gore) = 388
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:49:55 (EST)
My two cents are: THIS JUST IN: There has been a rush to join a new organization called The NAAR1%PC (The National Association for the Advancement of the Richest One Percent of the People in the Country.) Also new is the shadow NAACP (National Association of Caca People).
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:35:59 (EST)
My two cents are: THIS JUST IN: Jesse Jackson wants an investigation to find out why the White House never invited Kunte Kinte to spend a night in the Lincoln slave barracks. Incidentally, no matter how often he speaks at universities about the benefits of higher education, Jackson still pronounces it "po'k chops."
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:33:12 (EST)
My two cents are: THIS JUST IN: An audio engineer has designed a particularly sensitive device for checking popular recordings. After listening closely to a Barbra Streisand album, he determined what she is actually singing is, "People? Who Needs People?"
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:30:45 (EST)
My two cents are: THIS JUST IN: During the balloting process some Vermont homosexuals panicked inside the voting booth thinking they had gone "back in the closet."
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:30:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Perhaps if we could all vote again we wouldn't vote for either one.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:19:07 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/genetic/tcge008.jpg
hand count result for double punched palm beach ballots!
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 19:09:07 (EST)
My two cents are: the barking seal: "Now, if there's any saving grace at all to the extra time that this is taking, it is this: Schoolchildren all over the United States are learning a lot about how a president is chosen in this country. They're learning a lot about our democracy. And families are able to make the point without fear of ever again being disputed that it matters whether or not you vote, and every vote counts."
and those lucky kids in the balkans are getting such exquisite anatomy lessons from the rotting corpses
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:59:31 (EST)
My two cents are: The actual counting of votes in all 172 Volusia County precincts had been completed by noon on Monday and the counters had moved on to absentee ballots. However, a three-person canvassing board still had to examine disputed ballots in about 70 precincts before finalizing the precinct results. As of 3:30 Monday, the count showed Republican George W. Bush with a net gain of nine votes over the previous totals. Officials also are trying to figure out what happened to the vote count at a precinct in DeBary, where more than 300 votes were not tallied until the recount. The recount showed Bush picking up an extra 51 votes in that precinct alone.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:44:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Specter isn't close to being a democrat. He, like many republicans is a grabber that attaches himself to whatever will keep him in office. He's a twit.........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:38:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Curt, Pete doesn't need you defending his ridiculous statements. Let him answer for himself...........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:34:15 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.sierratimes.com/images/e2000map.jpg
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:25:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Specter is a Democrat covering his butt with a Republican sticker.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:23:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, nay. End of story.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:22:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, you mean you were talking about a mandate? I thought your were just doing your evil socialists rant.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:22:31 (EST)
My two cents are: 18:10:0 hi ho.

- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:22:14 (EST)
My two cents are: Nay?
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:21:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Nay, anon, you ignore my prior adoption of your own liberal tactics which i have now shed. You only get the truth now. The fact is anyone with less than 50% of the vote has no mandate. Period.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:20:07 (EST)
My two cents are: "The statute doesn't say 'may be ignored' or 'may be certified,' it says 'shall. So all I can say to anybody, my Democratic friends, people who want to extend the election deadline, I have to honor this election by following my duties as presecribed by the Florida statutes. That's why I'm a member of this commission. The Florida legislature established this commission and the instructions to me are clear; that we have to review the votes that are submitted by 5 p.m. on Tuesday. We looked very closely to see if there is any discretion (in the law). There is no discretion.... I have Bill Bryant here who's acting as legal counsel on this matter and has extensive background in election laws and a staff legal counsel here -- we've all come to the same conclusion that there is no discretion." (Florida Election Canvassing Commission member Bob Crawford, Democrat)
poor old al, that's such a tough titty to swallow <4th and long on the usno lawn>
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:19:43 (EST)
My two cents are: The REAL ISSUE here which has been ignored so far is that under Florida law a hand count can only proceed once there has been a finding of a machine or system tabulation error. NO SUCH finding has yet been made. The canvassing committe specifically said it was HUMAN error, not machine error! A finding of a machine or tabulation system problem is a CONDITION PRECEDENT to invoking the hand count rule. This is the same under the Texas law. Such a condition probably exists in Volusia, but not in Palm County based on the own words of the Democrats who voted 2-1 to proceed with teh handcount. The handcount is not authorized without a finding of a machine tabulation error. This issue needs to be HIGHLIGHTED by the media.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:16:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete, Pete, Pete, thank goodness you've explained that it was lack of a mandate that you were calmly proposing. To someone who didn't know it was about a mandate it looked like more idiotic ranting about E-vil socialsits doing E-vil things like get elected with less than 50% of the popular vote. You ought to write a Pete FAQ explaining that you don't mean what you say and reserve the right to reverse it later, when your knee jerks in a new direction.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:13:25 (EST)
My two cents are: All you 900% ammunition sales fans, please note it is even harder to know how much ammunition has been bought since the election as it is to know how many people voted for Bush or Gore. In other words, the 900% increase story is bullshit, pure and simple. It's made up. There is no running count or last week's ammunition sales accessible to anyone at this time. Just another evidence of the lame-brainedness of people who get their information from talk-show hosts and the punditry.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:10:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, but Hillary made her rant the first day on the job. In fact she's not even on the payroll yet. At least Arlen is a senator and has a history of maneurvering legistlation through the channels of deadlock.
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:09:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Specter ,The republican was the VERY FIRST to come out for overhauling the electoral system. Stop blaming Hillary, Pete. It makes you look simple minded...........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 18:04:30 (EST)
My two cents are: In the three days since the U.S. General Election, ammunition sales throughout the United States have jumped an astonishing nine-hundred percent (900%). ////////// Its deer season ,you idiot,all over the country. A million hunters will hit the woods here in Pa right after Thanksgiving........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:51:49 (EST)
My two cents are: "... The script for the telemarketers planted a seed in the minds of voters to the effect that they might have cast their votes wrong on the butterfly ballot. It specifically urged them to contact government officials if they had concerns about it...." Problem is their stupidity affliction prevented them from punching the right phone buttons so all they could do was blubber and bawl. One thing about this election is it has brought human error out as the leading cause of "computer errors".
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:46:00 (EST)
My two cents are: the greatest one will be when clinton is mandated to turn in his little rock law license.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:41:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Clinton did so have a mandate. In fact he had several mandates. He had court and grand jury depostitions mandated to him in Whitewater, Jones V. Clinton, Whitewater, and the perjury investigation.
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:35:32 (EST)
My two cents are: By the way, that Texas statute also defers to electronic tabulation unless that is not possible. In Florida, it was possible and under its own statutes a hand count can only occur once it is shown that there was a system machine tabulation problem. It cannot be based on the voter's own human error. Neither statute says so. Get a grip.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:34:48 (EST)
My two cents are: It is time for them to go.

- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:32:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Texas law is not Florida law. You liberals do notat ahs sovereign states. The Constitution guarantees a Republican form of government to the states in Art. IV, sec. 4. There is no federal state. To apply Texas law to Florida law requires that there be no states. Are you people this lame? EACH state has to determine if a majority of its voters vote for one guy or the other. When it is done, each state submits its votes weighted by population. The states are sovereign in this decision or else you ought to do away with the States altogether as Hillary wants to do by abolishing the Electoral college. Sorry, this is just how the rules work, unless you are a liberal who won't accept the result. Poor losers.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:30:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh Jesus, that's just great. I suppose the Dems should back down, because if they don't, the gun nuts will start spraying bullets everywhere. And these are the people choosing our President. Wonderful.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:29:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Immediately following Al Gore's speech Chris Matthews gave his comment of "No one in this country will believe a word he just said!" in response to Gore's comments. He was absolutely livid! Matthew's co-anchor in reintroducing Matthews after the commerical break said "Here is our Chris Matthews who nearly jumped out of his chair after listening to Al Gore's comments". The comment Gore made that has Matthews so riled is his saying we have to make sure those people who's votes were 'misinterperted' are corrected, or something to that extent. In addition Gore's people left the media with the impression before his statement that he would answer questions but when it was all said and done he refused any questions. Matthews also said about Gore in that regard that he came out and "played the part of a trained seal"!
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:27:17 (EST)
My two cents are: � 127.130. Manual Counting (a) Electronic system ballots that are not to be counted automatically and the write-in votes not counted at the polling places shall be counted manually at the central counting station. (b) If the automatic counting of electronic system ballots becomes impracticable for any reason, the manager may direct that the ballots be counted manually at the central counting station. (c) The procedure for manual counting is the same as that for regular paper ballots to the extent practicable. The manager is responsible for the manual counting of ballots at the central counting station. (d) Subject to Subsection (e), in any manual count conducted under this code, a vote on a ballot on which a voter indicates a vote by punching a hole in the ballot may not be counted unless: (1) at least two corners of the chad are detached; (2) light is visible through the hole; (3) an indentation on the chad from the stylus or other object is present and indicates a clearly ascertainable intent of the voter to vote; or (4) the chad reflects by other means a clearly ascertainable intent of the voter to vote. (e) Subsection (d) does not supersede any clearly ascertainable intent of the voter. Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 211, � 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1986. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 728, � 52, eff. Sept. 1, 1993. Texas Statutes : Election Code - CHAPTER 127
Texas Statutes
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:27:04 (EST)
My two cents are: No one was confused in Chicago, either. 100% for Gore.
Whatever'
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:26:39 (EST)
My two cents are: No one was confused in Chicago, either. 100% for Gore.
Whatever'
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:26:35 (EST)
My two cents are: They're not idiots, Pete. Many people have complained about these types of ballots in elections all over the country, on Election Day. The only thing that was idiotic is that folks approved this format. It doesn't look confusing, but you didn't vote using that type of ballot. I don't know why they didn't do research on that ballot format, and find out that it has been retired in several states. The most important question is thus: what did these alleged telemarketers allegedly say to allegedly plant seeds of confusion in these people's minds? It sounded like everyone was confused when it came to these ballots. Pat Buchanan himself affirmed this. There is no conspiracy, unless you're willing to believe that, as easily as this could be a Dem conspiracy, it can be a Repub. Jeb is the Governor, you know, and has been notoriously quiet about it all.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:26:08 (EST)
My two cents are: While Gore supporters are holding protests in the streets, Bush supporters are buying bullets at gun shops. In the three days since the U.S. General Election, ammunition sales throughout the United States have jumped an astonishing nine-hundred percent (900%). Americans are furious over massive, blatant and widespread vote fraud by supporters of Al Gore and many are openly talking about "blood in the streets."
The Sierra Times
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:24:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Does Al have the phone number for the ranch?
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:24:43 (EST)
My two cents are: No, it is a Democrat tactic. Daly uses it in Chicago. There is a vast stench of dEmocrat corruption in this election and it WILL be uncovered. You watch.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:19:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Wahtever, you see nothing wrong with Democrats putting the sead into people's heads that they might have voted for the wrong person? Why didn't they say something before they left the precinct? We cannot overturn an election based on idiots. Interesting that so many of them are Democrats. The Presidency hinges on the idiot vote? Brother.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:18:22 (EST)
My two cents are: It's just crap. Folks before have retired these types of ballots because they have proved to be confusing. It wouldn't have mattered if the election weren't so close. At least, we now know that these types of ballots should be retired. That's about all there is to it.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:16:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Nice try to spin. What a loser. I'm beginning to think these retchies are always retching because they're spinning so fast. What in the hell is wrong with having telemarkers calling people before and on Election Day? My phone was blowing up with telemarketers.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:15:03 (EST)
My two cents are: AP wire release from late Friday night (a "buried" news item on 11/10/00, as Rush characterized it) revealing that the Dems mobilized a telemarketing firm to call 5000 Florida voters an hour before the polls closed on Election Day. The script for the telemarketers planted a seed in the minds of voters to the effect that they might have cast their votes wrong on the butterfly ballot. It specifically urged them to contact government officials if they had concerns about it. And at roughly the time the Dems mobilized the telemarketer, CNN was announcing a Gore victory in Florida! (Hmmmm....) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This reveals that the groundswell of complaints concerning the ballot was a farce. The whole thing was precipitated by the Dems. What else is new? Well, this revelation by the AP does constitute new evidence of something which we'd better not overlook. The timing of the rapid mobilization strongly suggests that the whole thing was planned in advance of Election Day (even if the shrewd planners obviously had to wait until the end of the fateful day to pull the trigger). My point is that the Dems knew well in advance that they were going to have a butterfly ballot. And they planned all along to make the design of that ballot a centerpiece in a post-election fraud. Why would they do that? It is evidently because they already had operatives in place sticking wires through the "Gore hole" in stacks of ballots. They were destroying votes for Bush and Buchanan in astonishing numbers. My point is that the Dems were planning carefully. And they were planning to win, not to lose in a squeaker. So, by starting an Election Day outcry about the ballot design (and again, they did know about it in advance and never complained about it!), they were just preparing an "alibi" for the voiding of huge numbers of Bush (not to mention Buchanan) ballots. The Dems were just covering the tracks. They were doing advance work to make sure the public would accept the fact that there were so many voided ballots without thinking about why there were so many of them. Remember what I said about the timing of the mobilization of the telemarketing firm: The Dems mobilized the telemarketer at about the time when they thought they were going to win the election, not when they thought that they had lost it!
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:12:31 (EST)
My two cents are: No one ever said that, guy. I said he never got 50% of the vote so he never got a mandate. This is exactly what I have been saying here no matter who wins. Neither of these guys will ahve a mandate. Same with Clinton. when someone gets 50%, then they can squawk. are you that dense not to get this? Never mind. I know the answer.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 17:02:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete, Pete, Pete, it was one of your standard rants, how Clinton stole the election with less then 50% of the popular vote. Look in the pickle jar, guy. You kept yapping about it even after it was pointed out to you that about a third of all Republican presidents have done the same thing, starting with Abraham Lincoln. You are a piece of work, Pete.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:58:15 (EST)
My two cents are: This vote theft sound like a sort of razor-edge technique, sort of like giving instructions to the fifth column with your eyebrows.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:55:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Show me proof anon, I never said what you now lie about. Why anyone even gives you guys two seconds of air time completely escapes me.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:54:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, the secty of state says these are the deadlines: tomorrow at 5 pm, counties report all certified results. Then the secty of state waits until Friday for the deadline for absentee ballots to arrive. We will know the result on Saturday morning.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:52:43 (EST)
My two cents are: GORE-DALEY-DEM ELECTION THEFT BY MANUAL RECOUNT PLOY DOCUMENTED BY DEMOCRAT ATTORNEY COROLLARY: Do Democrat Precincts Prefer Punch Card Over More Accurate Optical Scan Ballots PRECISELY to Enable This Type of Election Theft? "Downs told me, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, 'You get me within 100 votes and I can steal any election,'" Haueter told WorldNetDaily. Nolan subsequently hired Downs and "brought him out to train my staff in the techniques they [Democrats] were using" so they could protect themselves against future election-fraud victimization, Nolan said. Nolan and Haueter said Downs described three basic tactics: "The first rule is, you keep counting until you're ahead. And if that doesn't put you ahead, you recount, re-recount -- you keep counting until you're ahead. If you're behind, then you've got nothing to lose." Second, Nolan said, "the more times those ballots are handled, the more chance there is that chads will break loose" and hence disqualify the ballot. Third, he said, "the minute you're ahead, you stop and declare yourself the victor." "After that, you don't want the ballots handled any more," Nolan said, "because some of the chads for your candidate might break loose. While you're behind it doesn't matter, but if you're ahead and more break off or become disqualified for your candidate, that's a bad thing." A favorite tactic, said Nolan, is to ask election officials for ballots, "allegedly so they can look at it more closely." When operatives do, often they will bend or crinkle ballots covertly in an effort to break another chad loose and thus have the ballot thrown out. "This whole process sounds like exactly what is going on in Florida," Nolan said. "And the more times those ballots are handled, the more chances are you'll break some of them [chads] loose." Nolan referred to Fox News' Tony Snow's weekend interview with Bush campaign representative and former Secretary of State James Baker, in which he asked Baker why -- after each time election officials run ballots through mechanical vote-tally machines -- there have been more votes counted or taken away from both candidates. "Baker didn't have an answer to that," Nolan said. "But the answer is, because they've handled those ballots more times, breaking loose more of those chads" -- those that perhaps weren't completely punched through.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:51:27 (EST)
My two cents are: I think it's cute, the fervor that Pete is glorifying the electoral college with. Back two or three weeks ago he hadn't figured this out, and it was E-vil to win the presidency with less that 50% of the popular vote, not even mentioning winning it with fewer votes than your opponent.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:49:50 (EST)
My two cents are: At the press conference Gore admitted that he was just fucking with the Junior's mind, teaching him how to get used to his promised four years of discomfort. Bush came through it pretty well, though, bringing the old crook Baker out of retirement instead of trying to choke the necessary twisted logic out of his own lips, or at least out of where his lips would be. Thanks to this training aid from Gore, Junior may well be able to hand a real minor difficulty without breaking out in boils.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:43:32 (EST)
My two cents are: At this rate with the lies, distortions and internal strife caused by Democrats over the last 4 years, it really will not make any difference. If Republicans do not hold the line this year, they may surrender forever to the evil of liberalism. This is the truth. Tiem to fight hard agaisnt these guys and never allow power to slip through the cracks to them ever again.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:40:07 (EST)
My two cents are: What, Pete, declare war on ourselves? Saddam would love that.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:36:09 (EST)
My two cents are: I was kidding. I've just never seen your sarcastic side in full bloom. :-)
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:35:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Bad news Glint, most of them already ahve reproduced and created more democrat tadpoles who will spawn future chadpoles. It is time to DECLARE WAR!!
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:34:57 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm not being vituperatuous, Coppertone. I'm just glad that if those voters can't line up arrows and holes chances are they won't be able to reproduce. Thank God, and Darwin!
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:33:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore is going to be on TV answering questions in a few minutes.........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:31:44 (EST)
My two cents are: who the hell cares what florida's secretary of state says? it should be be left up to gore's lawyers to dictate how florida's counts get tabulated, not the state's own attorney general. if they want some counties to count hands and another to count feet, who are the people of florida to argue? after all gore's lawyers are high powered and from places like harvard. and the charges of being a law school drop out will wash off their backs like water off a rabid nibbling duck.
i say let gore's lawyers choose all the florida electoral college graduates
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:30:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Such vituperation, Glint, coming from one as gentle as you. You'd think I wrote that post. :-)
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:30:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Headline 11/17: "Gore wins by a chadpole!"
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:29:39 (EST)
My two cents are: McDONALD, Justice. Bill Chappell, Jr., a resident, taxpayer, and elector from Volusia County, Florida, petitions for a writ of mandamus and temporary injunctive relief. We have jurisdiction pursuant to article V, section 3(b)(8), Florida Constitution. Chappell, an unsuccessful candidate for election to the United States House of Representatives in the November 8, 1988 election, asks that we direct the Florida Elections Canvassing Commission to disregard the votes cast in Flagler County, to declare the winner of the seat at issue here without the Flagler County votes, and to enjoin certification of that winner to Congress until further order of this Court. We find that the Flagler County Canvassing Board substantially complied with section 102.111, Florida Statutes (1987), and, therefore, deny the requested relief. In the November 8, 1988 general election Craig James received 125,467 votes and Chappell received 124,735 in the race for Florida's Fourth Congressional District. Because less than one-half of one percent of the votes cast separated the candidates, the votes had to be recounted pursuant to section 102.141, Florida Statutes (1987). Section 102.111, Florida Statutes (1987), provides that county canvassing boards shall forward election results to the Department of State immediately after certifying those results. The statute further states: "If the county returns are not received by the Department of State by 5 p.m. of the seventh day following an election, all missing counties shall be ignored, and the results shown by the returns on file shall be certified [by the State Election Canvassing Commission]." Five of the six counties in the Fourth Congressional District certified the results of the election and recount by 5:00 p.m., November 15, the seventh day after the election. The Flagler County Canvassing Board's original certificate, however, did not reach the Department of State until November 17, 1988. Chappell, therefore, argues that section 102.111 mandates that the Flagler County votes not be counted and that he be declared the winner of the Congressional seat because, without the 11,000 Flagler County votes, his tally is more than two hundred votes greater than his opponent's. As pointed out in response, however, the Flagler County Canvassing Board informed the Department of State of the results of the recount by telephone on November 14. Moreover, the Department of State received a facsimile telecopy of the written certificate early on November 16. Contrary to Chappell's claim, we do not find that section 102.111's "all missing counties" language turns the certification process into "an imperative, ministerial" duty, "involving no judgment on the part" of the state canvassing commission. The statute says that returns shall be received by 5:00 p.m. of the seventh day after the election. The Department of State received Flagler County's returns on November 14. Granted, the returns arrived telephonically, rather than in writing, but section 102.111 does not explicitly require that the returns be in writing. In Boardman v. Esteva, 323 So.2d 259 (Fla.1975), cert. denied, 425 U.S. 967, 96 S.Ct. 2162, 48 L.Ed.2d 791 (1976), this Court considered a suit to keep absentee ballots from being counted. The Court concluded that the electorate's effecting its will through its balloting, not the hypertechnical compliance with statutes, is the object of holding an election. "There is no magic in the statutory requirements. If they are complied with to the extent that *1009 the duly responsible election officials can ascertain that the electors whose votes are being canvassed are qualified and registered to vote, and that they do so in a proper manner, then who can be heard to complain that the statute has not been literally and absolutely complied with?" Id. at 267. There has been substantial, and perhaps complete, compliance with section 102.111. Chappell has presented no compelling reason for disenfranchising the 11,000 residents of Flagler County who cast their ballots on November 8. We therefore deny the petition for writ of mandamus and any other relief sought in this case. [FN*] FN* Because we find substantial compliance sufficient in this case, we do not address the issue of mandatory/directory construction or the constitutionality of the election statutes. It is so ordered.
Pete� Here si the Florida Supreme Court precedent upholding the 5 pm deadline!!!!
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:26:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Note the "Note" at the bottom of the Palm Beach ballot instructions (unless you're one of them illiterate two-foot tall Democrats that can't line up the holes and arrows): http://graphics.nytimes.com/images/2000/11/13/national/13tock.2.jpg
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:25:47 (EST)
My two cents are: This misses the point. The "shall" deadline applies to when the absolute deadline is to get the results in. The "may" part only applies to whether (once that deadline has passed) the Sect'y of state will use the LAST recount. so, Palm's count can be ignored in total or the secty can use the last official recount. So there is no inconsistency in these two provisions. We better have good lawyers on our side. The deadline is tomorrow and I suspect the Secty of State will use the last official count for Palm county if they do not get the handcount in. Otherwsie they can just ignore all results in teh secty's discretion.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:18:41 (EST)
My two cents are: "Gore's huge team of operatives and lawyers geared up for a public relations battle. Democrats said they would dispatch Gore surrogates across the country to allege that Harris' actions are evidence that Jeb Bush is using his influence as Florida governor to help his brother. "
Anonymous. <democrat party's legacy of lies>
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:17:13 (EST)
My two cents are: I suspect the secretrary of State will accept the count from the second count, as it has a deadline of tomorrow under shall, but it is may to include it in the count."section 102.111 of state law, "Canvassing elections," which says in part: "If the county returns are not received by the Department of State by 5 p.m. of the seventh day following an election, all missing counties shall be ignored, and the results shown by the returns on file shall be certified." The emphasis is on the word "shall." However, the very next provision, section 102.112 of the Florida code, is titled "Deadline for submission of county returns to the Department of State; penalties," and takes a slightly different tack. That second provision reads in part: "The county canvassing board or a majority thereof shall file the county returns for the election of a federal or state officer with the Department of State immediately after certification of the election results. Returns must be filed by 5 p.m. on the 7th day following the first primary and general election.... If the returns are not received by the department by the time specified, such returns may be ignored and the results on file at that time may be certified by the department." The key word in that second provision of the law is "may." It all comes down to which provision would be given precedence in a Florida court. If it's the first, containing the word "shall," Harris is right and she has no option. If it's the second, containing the word "may," Democrats may launch a challenge to the deadline in state court if they can show that extensions beyond the statutory deadline have been granted to late county votes in the past.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:13:27 (EST)
My two cents are: If I was Gore I'd sell that place in Tenn. why live where they don't like you? He didn't even winb his home District. Thats why he is in this mess. Screw Tenn.........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:08:58 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore Launches First Direct Court Action in Florida WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Al Gore (news - web sites) launched on Monday his first direct legal action in the fight to decide last week's indecisive U.S. election, joining a Florida county's suit to extend Tuesday's deadline for vote certification. Gore communications director Mark Fabiani said the vice president's legal team had joined the suit filed by Florida's Volusia county against the deadline of 5 p.m. on Tuesday set by Florida's state secretary of state. ``The county filed the suit in state court and we joined it,'' Fabiani said.
a couple extra days of chad shaking oughtta do it
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 16:05:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete, you're beginning to scare me. Actually, no sense in you going through so much trouble. Just a ticket waiting at BWI and I'll wear my boots to Hawaii. ;-) <> Looks like Gore is going to fight going back to the farm in his home losing district with everything the tax payer can muster. Guess he's lost his edge on the fine art of chicken hypnosis.
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:54:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the chads aren't fat enough to steal the election.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:40:22 (EST)
My two cents are: FOXNews, CNN and other major media outlets have been reporting that Gore may gain 1900 votes from the Palm Beach recount. That is impossible. There were about 10,000 non-votes in the entire county. We know this for certain. This article points out that Gore's people chose three precincts that had 165 each and then the sample was slightly increased so that 1% of the total county vote would be examined. Here's the crux of the equation. The 1% tally included FIVE PERCENT of the non-vote ballots! So, instead of taking 19 and multiplying it by 100 (for 1900) the correct figure, given similar ratios of vote recovery would yield 1/5 of 1900 or roughly 380 votes for Gore from the entire county. Here's more perspective. From the 500 or so non-vote ballots examined yesterday there were 47 that had vote indications on them. Of these 47 the number broke slightly better than 2-1 for Gore as one would expect. Previous elections in which non-vote ballots have been examined have likewise shown that roughly ten percent of them did have hanging chads. That is about what we n percent of them did have hanging chads. That is about what we found yesterday from the 500 hanging chad ballots - 47. Now, knowing that we have 10,000 non-vote ballots in PBC, yesterday's results combined with past election's analyses would tell us to expect at TOTAL of 1000 ballots what have hanging chads. From that 1000 votes it is hard to extrapolate that Gore will receive a 1900 vote advantage over Bush. Additionally, as we have learned from the article that the precincts chosen were predominately black or minority, I would expect that the overal ratio for PBC might be statistically lower than the 1% sample in the vote ratio. Here's even better news. The margin of Gore's victory over Bush in Palm Beach County was 64/36 (270k vs 153k). I am exluding other candidates for obvious reasons. If this overall ratio is also found in the county-wide recount (and one would expect it to be so) then Gore's 1900 vote advantage that they and the media are touting shrinks to a mere 280 votes. Additionally, considering again that the 1% (but 5% of the problem ballots) sample was taken in predominantly black precincts, I would suspect that their 10% recovery of total votes from undervote ballots would be the absolute best case scenario for Gore. Given that blacks voted better than 90/10 against Bush I would guess that a black voter would be less inclined to purposefully avoid the presidential contest. Perhaps an elderly white voter who wants presciption drugs but also places a value on a candidate's ability to tell the truth would be more inclined to leave a true non-vote. If that were to bear out in Palm Beach County then Gore may be lucky to break a net 200 vote gain.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:32:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, if the Buffs beat Nebraska, I will personally fly to Maryland, lick shine your boots while you are mowing your neighbors causeway. This is the most piss poor defensive team I ahve ever seen. It is all coaching. The Iowa State game was an embarrassment of epic proportions. Nebraska usually comes back in a fury after a loss. Lights out for the Buffs this year.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:29:15 (EST)
My two cents are: I wondered about that also Glint. Some states do not even count absentees if the election is clear. So, Bush could have picked up more of the popular vote in other states since more rich people and military are abroad. But I imagine the results are certified with teh exception being a final count for absentees. In truth, like most things, people don't usually know its broken until they want it to work right. I'd sa for absentees. In truth, like most things, people don't usually know its broken until they want it to work right. I'd say the entire electoral system is broken. But not the Electoral college which ahd a clear legitimate purpose for being in existence. When all is said and done, Bush may still have the overall lead, the most states, the most counties and then it is still up to the legal wrangling over who got which votes hand counted or not. Watch teh Dems flip when that happens. We can copy their own arguments to use against them. Nothing matters now but to win. So the Bush boneheads better get their gloves on.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:24:58 (EST)
My two cents are: John, that court decision was expected. Like Pete said, it served merely to get the foot thrust through the door in anticipation of the gorebots ramping up on their legal gambit as they lay low while twisting propeller on their plane into a transplanted pine.
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:24:41 (EST)
My two cents are: http://the.wiretapped.net/security/textfiles/risks-digest/gauchat.voting
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:23:50 (EST)
My two cents are: "Prune Juicegate" is about as close as Warren Christopher has been to anything exciting since someone drew him a picture of what Monica was up to. His swing around the tube on Sunday was a startling example of the rising rate of crime among the elderly.
L.G.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:20:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Am I the only one that knows the Judge rejected the Weed's Campaign to stop the recount. Larry Tribe, your buddy,Pete, triumphed.........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:20:23 (EST)
My two cents are: "George W. Bush is a white-knuckle drunk" Martin Sheen
shut up and go bail your son outta the drug tank again
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:18:08 (EST)
My two cents are: "We therefore call upon the Florida Election Commission to explore every option, including scheduling and supervising new elections in Palm Beach County, as soon as possible. Nothing less, we believe, can preserve the faith of the people upon which our entire political system rests." -- Rosie O�Donnell et al
Rosie get your gun!
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:17:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey Glint, didn't say good afternoon to you. :-) Did everyone have a nice weekend?
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:11:11 (EST)
My two cents are: In fact, I thought that was how it was supposed to be. I remember I did an absentee ballot the first year I voted, in '92, for Clinton. I was in school up here, but I was registered in NY. I think I postmarked it before Election Day.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:10:28 (EST)
My two cents are: �We are trying to bring the election in for a landing.� . We think a process that has no end is a disservice to everyone who cast a ballot in this election.�
an official with the florida secretary of state�s office
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:09:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, I suppose one thing's sure: this buttefly ballot format will be retired after this election. I think that they should require that the absentee ballots be postmarked the day before Election Day, at the latest.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:06:47 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry, Pete, I slipped. You were right though about the huskers losing at least one of their last two regular season games. Talked with my Father Saturday after the game, and he feels they may go down to Colorado next week because "the Cornhuskers have gone flat."
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:04:20 (EST)
My two cents are: So, whr> - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:02:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore just joined a lawsuit and says the gloves are off. Guaranteed that Gore will seek to prevent Republcian recounts.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:02:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Not the Jayhawks, the Wildcats. But I'm one to talk...
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:01:31 (EST)
My two cents are: I guess I was operating under the delusion that there was no winner until ALL votes were in and counted.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 15:01:27 (EST)
My two cents are: A bunch of "what ifs" didn't answer the question, Anon@14:56:33. Try again later.
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:59:27 (EST)
My two cents are: I once sent a postcard from Mexico to a friend in California. It arrived about two weeks after I had returned home. Are you beginning to figure out this puIt arrived about two weeks after I had returned home. Are you beginning to figure out this puzzler, Glint?
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:58:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Cornhuskers lost to the Jayhawks by one point. Also, the kids' school in it's last game of the regular season missed out on having a perfect record by losing in double overtime. Not a good weekend footballwise. Man, everything seems to be coming up razor thin lately.
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:57:45 (EST)
My two cents are: No, dummy, there is no "result" until all ballots are counted. Now, if Gore has a 10,000 vote lead after all but absentees are counted, the point is moot.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:56:33 (EST)
My two cents are: What I don't understand Pete, is why are the votes from abroad given 10 days to be received if the vote must be certified in seven days? Are the foreign votes tallied later and tacked onto the result?
Glint
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:50:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Besides, the fuck me shoes are your bag, 'Toine.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:43:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Shut up, 'Toine. // Pete, obviously, the hand recount is mandated by law. If it weren't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The Repubs are the ones about one-upmanship, because they're talking about recounts in all the "closely" contested states. The only problem the Dems have is with these ballots, which the people themselves have stated were confusing. You may not think they were confusing, but you weren't voting in Florida, either. The Dems aren't asking for recounts in heavily-conservative counties, just the ones where the people themselves complained. If the Repubs wants to one-up it all by recounting everywhere, even where Gore won by a big enough margin, then so be it. It's bullshit if the Repubs want to go there, but they've always been poor losers.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:42:29 (EST)
My two cents are: "Anonymous,have a place where we can take any hazardous materials. What they do with them I'm not sure. gnat - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:09:15 (EST)"
they use it to make owl food
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:36:30 (EST)
My two cents are: I guess they think Gore is an example of the Grinch trying to steal Christmas. But I'm sure they think Christmas will come. And then all the Republicans in Whoville will be happy.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:36:26 (EST)
My two cents are: what we need are facts not visualization. i think miss america needs to come clean and describe any distinguishing characteristics she is aware of first hand (ahem!). i mean is the presidential prick tapping against the front of the lecturn or is it hooked around jabbing into the front side?
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:28:53 (EST)
My two cents are: the election cannot be decided by the current pissing contest. how about an oprah kissing contest?
first candidate to stoop (ahem!) to cunnilingus loses
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:28:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Dems say "tough luck" on recounting Duval. You guys tell me if this is fair. Are the rules the rules? If so, then the rule says no results after 5 pm tomorrow. I can see the dems scurrying around to dot he handcount tomorrow. You can't have it both ways.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:28:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Waht will likely happen now is Bush stops all appeals, he waits for teh secty of Florida to certify tomorrow and if it is extended by the court, then he might ask for recounts in other areas. But I suspect this will come down to the sovereignty of Florida's executive branch to determine if it can certify results by tomorrow. Ultimately, the uS Supreme Court has to uphold the sovereignty of Florida to certify or not certify its own results. There could be a clash between the Florida Executive branch and their Judicial branch. In the end, the courts will ahve to decide when certification is proper. Of course, this could all be moot if the recount comes out in Bush's favor. But if it does not, then it will be a focus on the deadline and the possibility of more recounts well after the deadlines under an equal protection argument. Courts will have to unwind this mess. In the end, the Judicial power is the most supreme in this country, if you all did not know this already.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:23:09 (EST)
My two cents are: "...I bought some brand new shoes... Whatever - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:11:55 (EST)"
if the shoe fits and you need all the fuck luck you can get, go for it! <you can never have too many pairs of daisy duke fuck me shoes>
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:11:53 (EST)
My two cents are: "My two cents are: Hey, Toine. Go home, Gore is ahead by 4,000 votes. Anonymous. - Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:09:00 (EST)"
down from a 200,000 vote lead? cool!
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 14:05:32 (EST)
My two cents are: OK, open the floodgates on recounts. It will come down to the Secty of state versus the recount. We'll see.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:59:33 (EST)
My two cents are: A professor at Harvard Law School wants Al Gore to win so badly in Florida that he lied for him in a column in the Washington Post last Friday. The column was by Prof. Philip B. Heymann and titled, �The Case for a Do-Over.� Heymann argued that we need a new election in Florida. He questions the validity of the ballot that was used in Palm Beach. He opined, �A Florida statute forbids the ballot form that seems to have confused so many [in Palm Beach].� But he does not tell the truth. When he told his readers about that Florida statute, he purposefully left out four words in the law that he doesn�t like. Here�s what he wrote. (As you read, be sure to pay attention to the three dots that he inserted because they indicate that something was left out at that spot.) Professor Heymann: �[The Palm Beach ballot] is illegal by Florida statutes designed to eliminate the confusion that infected this election. Section 101.560 of Florida law states: �When an electronic or electromechanical voting system� is used, �the ballot information shall�be in the order of arrangement provided for paper ballots.� Section 101.27(3) repeats the same requirement.� The Truth: Here�s what the statute actually says, including the four words he left out: �the ballot information shall, as far as practicable, be in the order of arrangement provided for paper ballots." [emphasis added] We understand that Harvard Law School is partisan and political, but do they want a Democrat to win so badly that they will lie in order to achieve their goal? We can all see that the law does not require that the machine ballots be identical to the paper ballots. The words �as far as practicable� makes that clear. That�s why Prof. Heymann didn�t want us to know that those words are there. Guess who this Harvard man worked for before he came to Massachusetts? He was a deputy attorney general in the Clinton/Gore administration. A person can argue that a lie by one professor does not taint the entire school. But if there are no corrections or apologies made, it certainly does. We are indebted for this information to an article in the National Review by Robert Alt, adjunct fellow at the John M. Ashbrook Center for Public Affairs.
ALL democrats are liars
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:50:21 (EST)
My two cents are: FLORIDA DEPT. OF STATE DIVISIONS Office of the Secretary Office of International Relations Division of Elections Division of Corporations Division of Cultural Affairs Division of Historical Resources Division of Library and Information Services Division of Licensing Division of Administrative Services MEMBER OF THE FLORIDA CABINET State Board of Education Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund Administration Commission Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission Siting Board Division of Bond Finance Department of Revenue Department of Law Enforcement Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles Department of Veterans� Affairs STATEMENT OF KATHERINE HARRIS, SECRETARY OF STATE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, November 13, 2000 CONTACT: Ben McKay (850) 414-5502 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am issuing this statement to ensure there are no misunderstandings with respect to the statutory schedule for completing the presidential election in Florida. To that end, I met this morning with representatives of the campaigns of Vice President Al Gore and Governor George Bush, and I communicated by facsimile transmission with the Supervisors of Elections in each of Florida's 67 counties. The electoral process is a balance between the desire of each individual voter to have his or her intended vote recorded and the right of the public to a clear, final result within a reasonable time. It is the duty of the Florida legislature to strike that balance, and it has done so. In order to serve the interests of individual voters and the candidates who seek elective office, the law provides for automatic recounts in extremely close elections, methods for protesting elections, and procedures for petitioning for, and conducting, manual recounts. And in order to effectuate the public's right to clarity and finality, the law unambiguously states when the process of counting and recounting the votes cast on election day must end. For this election, that time is 5 PM, November 14, which is tomorrow. Section 102.112, Florida Statutes, provides that the county canvassing board must certify the county returns by 5 PM on the 7th day following the general election. The performance of this duty is mandatory; there are no exceptions provided in the law. In fact, a $200 a day personal fine is imposed on members of the county canvassing board for failing to meet this deadline. In this context, I am very aware that a few counties are conducting or contemplating additional recounts in the presidential election. In order to assist them in continuing their recounts as long as the law allows, I am dispatching personnel from my office to the offices of the Supervisors of Elections in every county that does not have a certified return on file in my office at the close of business today. They will remain in the offices of those Supervisors of Elections until 5 PM tomorrow in order to be available to officially receive the certified returns of that county until the last moment, thus providing the maximum possible time for recounting and certification. As previously stated, it is the duty of the county canvassing board - and the county canvassing board alone - to certify the returns from that county by 5 PM tomorrow. If the certification is not in the possession of the Florida Department of State at that time, the law provides that the votes cast in that county will not be counted in the certification of the statewide results. Again, Section 102.112, Florida Statutes, which deals with the duties of the county canvassing board, provides, "If the returns are not received by the time specified, such returns may be ignored and the results on file at that time may be certified by the department." Section 102.111, Florida Statutes, is explicitly mandatory. It provides, "If the county returns are not received by the department by 5 PM on the 7th day following an election, all missingllowing an election, all missing counties shall be ignored, and the results on file shall be certified." Florida law does not provide any date for return certifications other than tomorrow at 5 PM, and it does not provide any penalties for noncompliance other than the fines mentioned above and the disallowance of the entire uncertified vote of the defaulting county. Any discretion vested in me by the legislature in this regard is necessarily limited to circumstances not specifically contemplated by the legislature in the law. Such unforeseen circumstances might include a natural disaster such as Hurricane Andrew, where compliance with the law would be impossible. But a close election, regardless of the identity of the candidates, is not such a circumstance. The legislature obviously specifically contemplated close elections; the law provides for automatic recounts, protests, and manual recounts - and it plainly states when this process must end. Therefore, I will adhere to the date and penalties that are provided for Florida law. With regard to the status of overseas absentee ballots, they must have been executed as of last Tuesday. They must bear a foreign postmark as provide in Section 101.62(7), and they must be received by the Supervisors of Elections by midnight Friday. They are not required, however, to be postmarked on or prior to last Tuesday. I will today ask the Supervisors of Elections to make plans with their canvassing boards to count and certify the relatively few remaining overseas ballots Friday night, or by no later than Saturday morning. I will further ask them to transmit facsimile copies of those certifications to my office by noon Saturday as permitted by applicable case law. I anticipate that the state Elections Canvassing Commission, composed of the Secretary of State, the Commissioner of Agriculture, and the Director of the Division of Elections, will officially certify the results of the presidential election in Florida on Saturday afternoon. In summary, every county must have official certifications of the voting returns from last Tuesday delivered to the Florida Department of State by 5 PM tomorrow, or those returns will not be included in the statewide canvass. It is my expectation that overseas absentees will be counted and certified by each county canvassing board no later than Saturday morning. Therefore, I anticipate that the presidential election in Florida will be officially certified by Saturday afternoon, barr those returns will not be included in the statewide canvass. It is my expectation that overseas absentees will be counted and certified by each county canvassing board no later than Saturday morning. Therefore, I anticipate that the presidential election in Florida will be officially certified by Saturday afternoon, barring judicial intervention. No county canvassing board has ever disenfranchised all the voters of its county by failing to do their legal duty to certify returns by the date specified in the law. I am confident that no county canvassing board will do so in this election.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:47:22 (EST)
My two cents are: if anything this election has been an eye opener for americans. bush has shown his true colors as a patient man, content in watching tv coverage of the debate while answering the odd phone call now and then from a harried opponent located somewhere in a motorcade which is either zipping to fro, at the whim of the polling tide. why can't bush be more like gore, a firm believer in the polls, anxious to concede when the data is down but not afraid to flip and flop like carp on the dock with gulping mouth until the cleaver comes down. expect that once the cleaver does come down and florida goes to bush, gore will still dance like a hypotized headless chicken.
fact: the on headless chickens the left wings get the most flaps
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:46:32 (EST)
My two cents are: if anything this election has been an eye opener for americans. bush has shown his true colors as a patient man, content in watching tv coverage of the debate while answering the odd phone call now and then from a harried opponent located somewhere in a motorcade which is either zipping to fro, at the whim of the polling tide. why can't bush be more like gore, a firm believer in the polls, anxious to concede when the data is down but not afraid to flip and flop like carp on the dock with gulping mouth until the cleaver comes down. expect that once the cleaver does come down and florida goes to bush, gore will still dance like a hypotized headliess chicken.
fact: the on headless chickens the left wings get the most flaps
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:46:24 (EST)
My two cents are: George F. Will Sunday, November 12, 2000; Page B07 So the Clinton-Gore era culminates with an election as stained as the blue dress, a Democratic chorus complaining that the Constitution should not be the controlling legal authority, and Clinton's understudy dispatching lawyers to litigate this: "It depends on what the meaning of 'vote' is." The mendacity of Al Gore's preelection campaign is pertinent to the postelection chaos. He ran with gale-force economic winds at his back and with a powerful media bias pulling him along. (Even on Election Night: by calling Florida for Gore before all Floridians had voted, the networks almost certainly hurt Republican turnout in Florida and out west.) Yet Gore probably lost. Why? Consider his political ethics, which flow from his corrupting hunger for power. He staggered Bill Bradley in an Iowa debate by asking why Bradley voted against flood relief for Iowa. Bradley voted for $4.8 billion of relief, and opposed--as did the Clinton-Gore administration--only an amendment to add $900 million. When Gore made a false claim about traveling to Texas to inspect disaster damage with the head of federal emergency services, his heap of fabrications reached critical mass, triggering ridicule and draining credibility. He is, strictly speaking, unbelievable. His serial mendacity should be remembered during his seamless postelection transition to desperately seeking lawyering strategies and a friendly court to hand him the presidential election. Gore is the distilled essence of contemporary liberalism, which enjoys imposing its will--about abortion, racial preferences, capital punishment, tobacco, firearms, etc.--through litigation rather than legislation. Liberalism's fondness for judicial fiat rather than democratic decision-making explains the entwinement of the Democratic Party and trial lawyers. Election Day saw Democrats briefly succeed in changing the rules during the game in Missouri: Their lawyers found a friendly court to order St. Louis polls to stay open three hours past the lawful 7 p.m. closing time. Fortunately, a higher court soon reimposed legality on the Democrats and ordered the polls closed at 7:45. Now in Florida, Democrats want to change the rules after the game. The Democratic Party dotes on victims, but what, exactly, victimized those 19,000 Palm Beach County voters who, as almost 15,000 in the county did in 1996, botched their ballots by punching two candidates for president? It is absurd to say it is "unfair" to do what the law requires--disallow improperly marked ballots. And it is sinister when Democratic voters, after leaving polling places where they could have asked for guidance or fresh ballots, suddenly "remember" that they might have misread their "butterfly" ballots. Those ballots have the punch holes down the center and the candidates' names on the "wings." Gore campaign chairman William Daley, of the famously fastidious Cook County Daleys, says such ballots are indefensible--at least he said that until chief Bush strategist Karl Rove displayed a Cook County butterfly ballot. The Palm Beach ballots were designed by a Democrat and approved by a process that included Democrats, and sample ballots were published in newspapers and mailed to voters--all without eliciting pre-election complaints. Will instances, real or claimed, of incompetent voting with these ballots (Gore's hired semanticists call this "disenfranchisement") invalidate a presidential election? Not likely. The leading Florida case on confusing ballots holds: Confusion about a ballot will not void an election if the voter, taking "the degree of care commensurate with the solemnity of the occasion," can find the right name. The vast majority of Palm Beach voters could. Unless Florida's Supreme Court, which has approvingly cited this case in other rulings, overturns it, the "confused voter" claims are baseless. By Nov. 17, Florida's absentee ballots--with a large military, hence Republican, component--will have been counted, probably sealing Bush's win there. By then, millions of as yet uncounted absentee ballots in California and elsewhere may have made Bush the popular vote winner nationally. Even so, Gore operatives probably will still toil to delegitimize the election. Their actions demolish the presidential pretensions of the dangerous man for whom they do their reckless work. Jesse Jackson, the Democrats' rented ranter, would not have taken his magical mischief tour to Florida, there to excite a sense of victimization, if his party opposed that. All that remains to complete the squalor of Gore's attempted coup d'etat is some improvisation by Janet Reno, whose last Florida intervention involved a lawless SWAT team seizing a 6-year-old. She says there is no federal role, but watch for a "civil rights" claim on behalf of some protected minority or some other conjured pretext. Remember, Reno is, strictly speaking, unbelievable, and these things will continue until these people are gone. � 2000 The Washington Post Company
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:44:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, I see. Gotcha politics. One up manship. Gee, how Democrat of you. Problem is the law does not support a hand recount after the first two counts had bush the winner.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:44:05 (EST)
My two cents are: The answer would be no, because the Republican counties never complained about anything until after the Democrat counties complained. In those counties, their man was accurately represented in the vote counts. It just happens to be that the Democrat counties were the ones in which there was voter confusion, lawsuits filed by the citizens themselves, protests, and the kicker: Pat Buchanan himself said he should not have gotten as many votes as he did. Equal protection starts with NO ONE getting the shaft.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:35:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like you are chewing on some raw meat..
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:31:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:29:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Judge's question on equal protection: "'If your hand count, Mr. Defense Attorney, is more accurate than a machine count, and you only hand count by hand in those Democratic counties, aren't you favoring the Democrat and disfavoring the Republicans?'" Bingo.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:29:14 (EST)
My two cents are: COPENHAGEN, Denmark (CNN) -- Two absentee ballots from the U.S. presidential election have turned up in the mailbox of a family on the Danish island of Fyn, the Danish newspaper Fyens Stifttidende reports. A family in Odense, Fyn's main city, discovered the two Washington state absentee ballots over the weekend, mixed with some material they had ordered from a company in the United States. At first the family thought they had received some additional advertising, so they opened one of the envelopes. To their surprise, they found an American presidential ballot marked for George W. Bush. One of the ballots was cast by a man from Bellevue, Washington, who said he didn't know how his vote ended up in Denmark.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:18:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Anonymous,have a place where we can take any hazardous materials. What they do with them I'm not sure.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:09:15 (EST)
My two cents are: According to WABC radio top of the hour news at noon in New York: Bush lead has increased to 388 votes.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:07:47 (EST)
My two cents are: At 1:45 a.m. Sunday, nearly 17 hours after it began its work day, Burton announced the findings of the manual recount. In four precincts, Gore added 33 votes and Bush added 14. The numbers played over and over in Roberts' mind. If 1 percent of the vote produced 19 more votes for Gore, a full recount could produce a 1,900-vote edge, turning defeat into victory in Florida and the nation. In the words of the state statute governing recounts, that could alter the outcome of the election. "It's important to put our country above partisan politics," Roberts said later Sunday. "If things were reversed and it were Bush on the bottom and Gore on the top, I would still be doing absolutely the same thing." Roberts went to work, using parliamentary tactics honed over 14 years as a county commissioner. She spoke quickly and worked to cut off debate by demanding an immediate vote. Burton, the canvassing board chairman, ignored her several times, allowing political representatives scattered in the media-heavy audience to state their views. When Burton suggested that the board wait for a legal opinion from the secretary of state's office, Roberts retorted: "I'm not asking for an opinion. I'm asking for a vote." When an attorney with the secretary of state's office said a manual recount depended on finding errors in the county machines, Roberts said past recounts never took that into account. And, "I would like to call the vote." When Burton ignored her and recognized Democratic state Rep. Lois Frankel, Roberts cut her off and demanded a vote. Finally, LePore, criticized nationally for a ballot that confused voters, made a single comment, clarifying that the recount would be based on human error, not mechanical. "I say it was still an error," Roberts said. "I'd like to call the vote." "All right, call the vote," Burton conceded. The time was 2:15 a.m. The motion passed 2-1.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:05:27 (EST)
My two cents are: gore is certainly going out with a bang. rallying around the cry "free the chad" shouted from folks who don't know how to follow an arrow where the letter 'O' marks the spot. gore's bloody fingerails will have a profound effect on american culture and may even topple a few tried and true standbys, like "don't gore that joint, bucko!"
vote for the chad party
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:04:14 (EST)
My two cents are: gnat, what happens to the environment when you discard that old battery? Do you know where it goes?

- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:03:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Twexas is not florida. I expect Texas law would be clear also. Since you are not willing to focus on Florida law because it does not suit your purposes, as a typical liberal you disregard the rules. Some citizen.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:02:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Volusia County has completed their recount but no updated figures with The Weed still clinging to a 388 vote lead ,which if right is 100 more than the last count released. so stop bitching Pete, the asshole in texas is drawing away............John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 13:01:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Was gone for a few days, hoping when I returned this issue would have been resolved. Hi, John. Went back up to mountains and watched the big giant cedar fall. Sad for me, even though it was a danger. It was at least 600 years old. Almost like losing a friend. And wouldn't you know, my video battery died just before the final rip of the chain saw. It was clear in the a.m. but snow was falling hard by the time the tree came down. Flatlander that I am in winter, I have mixed feelings about snow. Pretty, but troublesome.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:54:39 (EST)
My two cents are: the hand count in florida is the most observed in history. all the bullshit about "mischief" ignores the fact that dubya signed a hand count bill into law in texas 3 years ago. florida needs to continue following the texas law, so let the hand counts go on. the texas law sets a precidence in florida and our people, especially daley, need to harp on this issue like a horny dog at a cocktail party.
floridians must ask themselves wwtd? <what would texas do>
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:48:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if Gore pursues litigation. Lieberman was on "Today," and was asked if they would pursue litigation. Lieberman left it completely open.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:45:49 (EST)
My two cents are: You know who looks the best in all of this? Clinton. I'd love to have him for another 4 years if it weren't for that pesky amendment...
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:42:24 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm perfectly willing to have the entire state recounted by hand, Pete and whoever wins, wins. Its as simple as that. I'm quite sure the dems would gladly agree to this.........John�
J Where do you buy Boursin Cheese?
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:40:39 (EST)
My two cents are: A sleeping giant? Perhaps there's a slingshot here and there.
gnat
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:40:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore's goons are as much behind this orchestration as Repubs. You know it. I know it. Stop pretending.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:39:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Gee, E did it ever occur to you to check to see if your state allows you to download an absentee ballot on their website from anywhere in the world? Even Hawaii allows that along with most states I have heard of. Of course, this won't stop you from half-baked demonizing. Check it out. Before you claim victimhood.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:38:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Dude, the Dems aren't the ones fighting hard. Gore's name hasn't even been on any of these law suits. The people themselves are pissed off. These things happen. I guess it would have been better for Bush to have stolen the election, and everyone should have just conceded to his superior extra-sensory perception? Nothing doing, homeboy. The Repubs are the only ones fighting hard, calling for recounts in places where recounts were never asked for nor warranted.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:37:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, there are certain steps both sides are taking in this "war." The Dems have their operatives in play in the canvassing commission not following the rules so the Repubs have to go to court. I say it si abojut time to start fighting Dems as hard and as nasty as they do. It is time to stop pussy footing around and bring in the big guns and blow these lying charades out of the water. Dems are awaking a sleeping giant and they better watch out waht they wish for. You simply can't steal this election now. Gore's silence indicates complete complicity. The dem lawsuits will follow this court challenge. Unless Gore does the right thing and accept the first two counts. Whoever is President will not have full legitimacy in people's eyes.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:32:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Volusia County just "found" 320 more votes for Bush. They cannot explain why not included in recount.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:29:16 (EST)
My two cents are: I didn't want to talk about this, but good morning, Pete & Papi. I don't believe the Dems will challenge any recount. They haven't yet. The Repubs are the ones challenging and suing in federal court over a statewide matter.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:23:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Well J, I certainly don't expect you to understand why. See, part of it happens to do with equal protection of the laws. Because what is happening is Dems have cherry picked select heavily Dem counties to recount which obviously favors them. If this was done throughout all other counties, then it will obviously favor Republicans (Like Duval with 26,000 spoiled ballots). You and your Dems want preferential treatment. You do not want equality. You don't want the hand recount to apply to all counties, only those you cherry picked. That is one of the reasons why. Also, you ignore the Florida laws which ahve nothing to do with Texas. In Florida, a recount by hand is only allowed when you can show a system tabulation error. The canvassing board here specifically said they did not find such an error, only human error. So, there is no basis for a recount by hand under Florida law without such a showing. But that won't stop biased Dems from fondling ballots, adding to Gore and subtracting (gee, hows that?) from Bush. You know add a few here, hide a few there. It is all biased potential BS. Thsi process is not perfect. But you can't sway it with preferential treatment. I suspect if the judge denies the request, then we will have recounts everywhere. Expect the Dems to challenge that.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:20:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Republicans are saying a manual recount is unconstitutionsal. How nice. the Weed Signs a bill in Texas he knows is not legal. HaHaha. So the republican administrator in Fla says the deadline can't be extended. More court action. Pete better move to Fla and pick up some of this money that is flowing.........John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:13:50 (EST)
My two cents are: How about the fact that, this weekend, my boyfriend and I were going to Foxwoods, which is this resort/casino on the Indian Reservation near the CT/RI border. It takes about an hour to get there from my house. My boyfriend hasn't been the most attentive person in the past few weeks, because he's had studying and all sorts of responsibilities to attend to, so he decided to do something nice this weekend. This is where we went on our very first date. I bought some brand new shoes, which went perfectly with the color of my feet and the outfit I was wearing. The minute we park in the parking lot and are walking to the casino, the shoes start pinching the shit out of my feet. By the time we walked to the restaurant, my feet were about to fall off. He's in a great, romantic mood, and he wants to go here and there, and every time he turns, it just squeezes the bejesus out of my feet. It put me in such a bad mood. I tried not to take it out on him, but I was so upset, because I wanted to dance and hang out. We won $200, which is how much we said we'd have to win to get a hotel room and crash, instead of driving back. At the end of the evening, I'm trying to push my feet into the back of my shoe, and -snap!- my heel broke. This guy saw it happen, and started laughing at me. I would have attacked him, but I was too surprised about the shoe. My boyfriend, I suppose, saw too many "Mentos" commercials, and broke the other heel, thinking I could walk in high heels without the heel. It was kind of sexy. He piggy-backed me to the car, which was pretty sexy too. I drove home though, because it was 2:00 in the morning, and I didn't have any shoes, and we hadn't made reservations anywhere. Needless to say, I took those shoes back the next day, and I dared the woman to give me grief about it. We're going to some hotel next week, so we can enjoy the room, instead of just crashing there.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:11:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey, Toine. Go home, Gore is ahead by 4,000 votes.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:09:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, I guess you guys said that already. I'm pretty much torn. I'd want Shrubbie in, because he will be rendered null and void. I want Gore in, just because I'm not 100% sure that Shrubbie would be rendered null and void, and why have a alkie dumbass in office, no matter how lame he would be. Let's all talk about something new, shall we?
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 12:03:49 (EST)
My two cents are: does anybody have the latest gore numbers? did his team win the touch football game or were they even keeping score? it looked to me like gore wasn't even trying. that chick carrying the ball plus one defender ran right past him while he was looking at the cameras 0ut of the corner of his eye. looked as thought the gore team got skunked. did he ask tittler for a recount of the score?
hey played ball just like a harvard dufus
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 11:41:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning, y'all. This guy on "Today" said that the Republicans are the first to advocate local control of gov't, that local gov't is warm and friendly and fuzzy and capable, yet, when this fiasco jumped off, who were the FIRST to go to the federal court and file suit? The Republicans. Hypocrites. Then, Jeb has been ostensibly unapproachable since the whole fiasco. Shady. Now, Shrub's leading in New Mexico by 17 votes? Super shady. What the hell is going on? Still scrolling.
Whatever
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 10:40:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete is right. This is the best thing that ever happened to the GOP. There's nothing better for the old political image than to define yourself as the party that will go to court to prevent the counting of the other party's votes.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 10:34:00 (EST)
My two cents are: The national nightmare has been going on for almost a week. It is time to appoint the only man in America who has had his transition team in place for the past eight years.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 1ot be willing to negotiate treaties and trade agreements with a man prone to boils. In other countries they don't take these things with such a liberal attitude.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 10:27:25 (EST)
My two cents are: The better man is the one without the boil. The better man is the one whose state isn't receiving tornadoes. Pay attention, people.
God
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 09:53:10 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning, all. Just heard via email from my State Department friends in South Africa, who left Kenya just in time not to get bombed there, although their friends were, and who I knew when I was living in Asia. I had a horrible time trying to vote when I was overseas. The NY ballots you couldn't ask for before a certain time, and unless they sent them with the diplomatic pouch (which was often late anyhow), they arrived too late to send them back in time. My friends in Pretoria, however, tell me that they sent off their ballots for Gore in good time--and they've gone to--West Palm Beach! Of all places. Later.
E
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 09:50:52 (EST)
My two cents are: We are witness to the final twitching of Mara Liasson's eyebrows in America.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 02:44:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Friday, September 8, 2000 Section: LOCAL Page: 2B By BRAD HAHN Staff Writer Beverly Green picked up another vote Thursday in her bid for the state House District 84 seat -- but is still 13 short of a chance at victory. Election night results showed the Republican from West Palm Beach had lost her party primary by 14 votes, prompting her to ask for a recount. Computers retabulated the results Thursday and found that she had indeed been shorted by the one vote -- a moral victory, maybe, but not enough to make a difference. Now Green has to decide whether to ask a judge to demand another count. "I'm not going to make a decision on any of that until I get away for a few days," Green said. "I will accept the results, I'll take the one vote the machine miscounted, but my people are going to say if it miscounted one, why could it have not miscounted 13 others?" Green and Republican Myra Orlando watched the leader change throughout the night in their party primary battle in West Palm Beach-area House District 84. On the short end of a 14-vote margin, Green on Wednesday announced her decision to ask for a recount. On Thursday morning, she made it official, and a three-person county canvassing board agreed to do another tally later in the day. Green asked that the votes be counted by hand, but the board unanimously agreed to handle the chore by computer. "It wasn't that close, the manual count is historically when it's single digits," said Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore, who joined County Commissioner Carol Roberts and County Judge James Burton on the board. After a couple of hours, the new results showed Green picked up one vote, which previously had not been recorded to either candidate. Though she would have preferred a manual count, Green said she accepts the result. Still, she says her supporters are pushing her to take the election to court. The candidate plans to go out of town for a few days and will make a decision when she returns. State law gives her five days from Saturday to petition the court for another count. "I have some people on my campaign committee who have asked me to take it all the way," she said, adding the staff members did consult an attorney. "But this will be my decision. I won't let anybody talk me into going further."
hypocrisy and Democrat bias in full bloom
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:59:20 (EST)
My two cents are: We are witness to the final death throes of the democrat party in America.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:49:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Analyzing the county-by-county Florida totals for Bush and Gore and the Senate candidates, McCollum and Nelson, points to a suspicious loss of votes for Bush in Palm Beach County. By comparing the Bush and McCollum totals in each of the counties, you find that Bush received more votes than McCollum in all but 4 of the 66 counties (Volusia was not reported). A closer look at those 4 counties reveals that three of them were McCollum strongholds, so it makes sense that he could get even more votes than Bush. But the one that does not make sense is Palm Beach County. It's the only county in which McCollum lost to Nelson while at the same time getting more votes than Bush. Here were the results: PALM BEACH COUNTY Bush Gore McCollum Nelson 152,846 268,945 154,528 269,835 An examination of the same totals for all the other counties (too long for me to list), with the exception of the 3 McCollum strongholds, reveals a clear pattern indicating Bush should have received thousands more votes than McCollum received in Palm Beach. The Gore totals, on the other hand, are typical in relation to Nelsons because Nelson received more votes than Gore in all but 8 counties. This would make an inquisitive person want to know what happened to the Bush votes in Palm Beach County. If the answer happens to be that someone tampered with the ballots in some precincts, then could it be that the Democrats don't really want a careful examination of the balloting there? Could it be that by calling for "a fair count" they are creating a smokescreen to hide the fraud and, ironically, getting the Republicans to fight for them to stop further examination of the Palm Beach balloting? The theory on the Democratic strategy may be wrong, but the statistics don't lie. It's the Bush votes, not the Gore votes, that are mysteriously missing in Palm Beach County.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:44:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Has anybody thought of checking the pins used to punch ballots in Palm Beach? Short pins would cause lots of unpunched ballots. Jeb may have felt he needed an insurance policy. While we're on the subject, I saw a report that Karl Rove had once given the GOP a seminar on the kind of voting irregularities that can cause confusion and affect voting patterns, just in the spirit of knowing your enemy, I'm sure, as Karl, George, Jeb et al are honorable men. But it would be an interesting exercise to compare the tactics he warned against with the weird stuff we're seeing in a state controlled by the Repuglican candidate's brother and nowhere else.
Anonymous.
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:34:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Made it thru the weekend with no result. Looks like an interesting day tomorrow. This will be over soon,Pete and you can relax again. G'nite............John�
J
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:24:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Please rebroadcast the 2 am 11/12 Palm County canvassing committee announcement in full. You will see LePore say clearly they found no system error. Only human error. The Florida Statute requires a finding of a system tabulation problem BEFORE there can be a recount. No such finding was ever made. This is all political liberal interpretation of the statute which the sect'y of state rep said was intended to deal with computer tabulation problems, not human error.
Pete�
- Monday, November 13, 2000 at 00:01:45 (EST)
My two cents are: This outrage is going to finally awaken the sleeping giant of the American conservative.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:56:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Carol Roberts, a county commissioner, and Theresa LePore, the county elections supervisor. Ms. Roberts is a highly partisan Democrat who met with President Clinton in Palm Beach last year while she was contemplating a run for Congress. Ms. LePore, an elected Democrat, is the designer of the infamous "butterfly ballot" that both Democrats and impartial observers say caused confusion on Election Day. Ms. LePore says she designed the ballot to make the print bigger for seniors, the group complaining the loudest about it. But she sent sample ballots to every voter and all candidates before the election and didn't receive any complaints. Nonetheless, she has come in for bitter criticism. The AP says she "might be the most reviled Democrat in the country" because her ballot "may have cost Al Gore the election." Ms. LePore has gone into near-seclusion and has hired a lawyer to defend herself against lawsuits. It is for that reason that Ms. LePore should have recused herself from the decision to launch an unprecedented hand count of all presidential ballots in Palm Beach--and why she should recuse herself from all subsequent decisions about this election. She has a blatant conflict of interest. Ms. LePore has worked in the Palm Beach election office since she was 16. As an elected official, she obviously would like to continue in office. If she did not approve the controversial hand count in the heavily Democratic county, it's obvious she would have no political future. Two months ago, the same Palm Beach County election commissioners rejected a request for a hand count in a disputed GOP primary election for a state legislative seat. Beverly Green begged for a hand count of her 13-vote loss but was rebuffed. "It wasn't that close. The manual count is historically when it's single digits," said Ms. LePore at the time. A state House district is smaller than Palm Beach County, but a single-digit margin in such a district would be the equivalent of only about 100 votes countywide. Clearly Ms. LePore & Co. are applying a double standard. The decision to proceed with the hand count was made by a single vote--Ms. LePore's. Do the American people want a single low-level politician who fears for her job to decide who will be the president of the United States?
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 23:52:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Actually, Toine, in this country you're allowed to vote any way you want, so voting against a Bush family member is not automatically treason. Enough is enough, however, and any Democrats in the armed forces should be weeded out as potential security risks.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:58:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Online votes debut in US election The agonising election recount in Florida to decide the next President of the United States also included votes cast online in a pioneering experiment, it has emerged. Two regions of the key state - Orange and Okaloosa - were picked to take part in an experiment which has allowed 200 forces servicemen and women overseas to vote online. The programme was overseen by the US Department of Defence, which ensures forces personnel can vote, regardless of where they are based. Other areas chosen for the trial were the state of South Carolina, Dallas County in Texas and Weber County in Utah. All the ballots - which were encrypted - were returned on Monday night, a spokesman for the Defence Department said. Traditionally, the military vote tends to favour the Republican candidate. And the e-voting test appears to have confirmed that trend in Florida. Pat Hollern, county supervisor of elections for Okaloosa, said most votes were cast for George W.Bush. Only two special forces personnel serving in "classified locations" were unable to vote in Florida. The test voters were volunteers recruited through military base newspapers or Internet advertisements.
at least the military has not turned to the traitors
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:49:08 (EST)
My two cents are: If you don't have time to read the longer of the two screeds, I read the first and last sentences and it seems to be saying that George W. Bush is good and Al Gore is bad. The shorter one says that somebody in charge of recount decisions in Florida is bad. Next.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:32:16 (EST)
My two cents are: Marcia Gelbart, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer The Palm Beach Post LOCAL, Pg. 1B July 4, 1999, Sunday, FINAL EDITION WEST PALM BEACH They make their decisions in the sixth-floor government chamber in downtown West Palm Beach. But in pursuit of public business, Palm Beach County commissioners travel the state, the country and even the world. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On a national level, Roberts says her leadership role has enabled her to make contacts with Washington power-brokers - including Vice President Al Gore, whom Roberts met at the White House to discuss brownfields and Florida's tobacco settlement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Highlights of their recent globe-trotting: the Roosevelt Room of the White House, Mexico City's Palace of Fine Arts, and a Buenos Aires restaurant for dinner and a tango show. Altogether, since October 1996, the county's seven commissioners have taken 85 business trips at a total cost to taxpayers of $ 52,566, according to a Palm Beach Post review of county travel records. In any given year, that's a miniscule portion of the county's overall $ 2 billion-plus budget. But it's still about 30 business trips a year, at an average cost of $ 618 each. About half of those journeys - 41 - had the same destination: Tallahassee. Why so much traveling? Conventions, conferences, lobbying. Networking and hobnobbing. "An elected official who spends their time wisely traveling can bring home a great deal of knowledge that benefits their constituents," Commissioner Carol Roberts says. Roberts has spent more money crossing the country during this time than any other commissioner: $ 13,319. And the bills are climbing. In the last six months, Roberts spent $ 4,866 - almost as much as she did in all of 1998. Most of the commissioners' travel cash comes out of their individual district budgets. Although there is a cap on the total amount set aside for travel, commissioners this year can dip into as much as $ 15,287 apiece that is set aside for other purposes such as materials and supplies. Their bills can also be picked up by other county departments, such as economic development, and county agencies, such as the Tourist Development Council or Palm Tran. The travel bug has bitten both Marcus and Roberts especially hard because of their high-level involvement in state and national organizations. As a board member of the National Association of Counties, Roberts has journeyed from Asheville, N.C., to Tulsa, Okla., and from St. Louis to Baltimore. All told, 11 of her 18 business trips have been related to her board position. On a national level, Roberts says her leadership role has enabled her to make contacts with Washington power-brokers - including Vice President Al Gore, whom Roberts met at the White House to discuss brownfields and Florida's tobacco settlement. Such contacts translate into dollars, Roberts claims, such as the $ 25 to $ 30 million that Palm Tran has received in the last five years.
bias? nah, no bias here
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:10:16 (EST)
My two cents are: IN the end, George W Bush will prevail. He will prevail not because of a>My two cents are: IN the end, George W Bush will prevail. He will prevail not because of any outbreak of statesmanship on the part of Vice-President Al Gore or the Democratic Party - on the contrary, it is alarming how few Democrats have been willing to say for the record that the Florida result should be respected even if it goes against them - but because of the solidity of the American legal and constitutional system. On Friday, the state of Florida will tally its absentee ballots. It is not utterly impossible that these ballots will favour Mr Gore, but if past history is any guide, they are more likely to add a couple of thousand votes to Mr Bush's slim majority in Florida. From that moment on, Mr Gore's hopes of winning the presidency depend either on convincing the courts to reinvent American law - or on frankly attempting to circumvent and overturn the law. Here are his options. The first is the one the Gore campaign is pursuing now: to convince Florida election officials to proceed with a hand-count of those ballots in four counties that favoured Mr Gore - and nowhere else. The purpose of the hand-count is to search for ballots that the voting machine failed fully to perforate. Nobody knows how many such ballots there will be, but there are always some: this weekend's unofficial test count of precincts in Palm Beach found 33 additional votes for Mr Gore and 14 for Mr Bush. That prompted the three-person Palm Beach elections board to vote two to one on Sunday to proceed with a hand-count of all that county's 425,000 ballots. Volusia county has also decided to hand-count its 184,000 ballots. The obvious danger to Mr Gore, of course, is that a similar hand-count in the state's pro-Bush counties might offset any advantage the hand-count gives him in Palm Beach. Fortunately for Mr Gore, the deadline for requesting hand-counts has already tolled in 53 of Florida's 67 counties. Unfortunately for him, even a lopsided hand-count probably won't bring in enough votes to offset Mr Bush's lead in the absentee balloting. That brings Mr Gore to option two: litigation. He probably cannot win without finding some way to count Palm Beach county's 3,400 Buchanan votes in his column. In a bloodcurdlingly candid press conference on Thursday, Gore campaign chairman Richard Daley hinted broadly that the campaign was contemplating legal action intended to convince a court to do precisely that. But this legal action will almost certainly fail. American judges have often thrown out ballots of doubtful validity. Never, however, have they reinterpreted a ballot cast for one candidate as a vote for somebody else. Nor are the judges likely to order a revote because of the alleged defectiveness of the Palm Beach county "butterfly" ballot: Florida case law suggests that when a ballot is published in advance without any objection to it being registered, courts won't countenance complaints about it after the fact. The Gore campaigners probably know all that. Which means that at the back of their minds they are weighing a more sinister option: setting Florida's vote aside altogether. The New York Times reported on Thursday that some Gore aides were weighing the possibility of tangling Florida so deeply in litigation that it could certify no electors at all before the December 18 deadline. Minus Florida's 25 votes, the electoral college will have 513 members. Winning the presidency would then require 257 votes - which Mr Gore, now at 255, will possess if he wins either of the two other undecided states, Oregon (seven votes) or New Mexico (five votes). But this strategy is also unpromising. It would shock the conscience of the country and would in any case almost certainly fail. Federal election law provides that if a state is unable for some reason to hold a presidential election, its state legislature may name its electors. The then new state of Colorado did just this in the disputed election of 1876. And the Republicans hold solid majorities in both houses of the Florida legislature. Which raises the last and most fateful option of them all: swaying the electoral college. As Mr Gore himself noted on Wednesday, the Democratic ticket won a slender but real lead in the popular vote on November 7. Some liberal journalists, such as Jonathan Alter of Newsweek and Mathew Miller of Slate, both of them serious and intelligent writers, have argued that Republican electors ought to defer to this popular majority by casting their votes for Mr Gore. Mr Daley appeared to second them last Thursday when he insisted that the point of an election is to install as president the man whom the largest number of voters prefer. Mr Gore himself carefully prepared the way for this argument on Wednesday, when he stressed in his prepared statement the legally irrelevant fact that he had won the larger number of popular votes. As the first three options fail Mr Gore, expect to hear a crescendo of argument from Democratic partisans on behalf of option four. But in the end it too will fail. True, only half the states oblige their electors to vote the way they have been instructed to vote. But not since 1800 has more than a single rogue elector cast an uninstructed vote. And those rare rogue electors have been acting on some whim or fancy of their own, and never at the behest of the defeated party. For Mr Gore or his surrogates actively to try to suborn electors would violate a 200-year-old understanding of how American democracy should work. It would be as if the defeated party in a British election were to appeal to the Queen to refuse her assent to laws passed through Parliament by the winning party. It would amount to a revolution. Americans have no use for revolutions. They crave stability and respect rules. It was this deeply founded conservatism that saved President Clinton from the consequences of his law-breaking in 1999: Americans rightly or wrongly regarded impeachment as a greater jolt to the political system than even presidential perjury. And it is this same conservatism that will thwart Al Gore this year, assuming that Mr Bush continues to lead in Florida at the end of the week. This week's wrangling may in fact strengthen the coming Bush presidency. Had Al Gore followed the normal rules of politics and conceded defeat on Wednesday morning, Mr Bush would now be hobbled by the perceived weakness of his mandate. By acting as ungraciously as he has - by showing open interest in the possibilities of acting lawlessly if need be - Mr Gore is with every passing day demonstrating that he is unfit for the high office he sought. By the time Mr Bush takes the oath of office, it will be Mr Gore who will have convinced them that the system once again worked and that the better man won.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:01:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Yore so stoopid, yu just don' get itt. If hand countin favors me, its OKAY. If it favors them socialsits asswipes who beat my Daddy, its UNAMERICUN AND RONG.
duh
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 22:01:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush campaign officials have had no harsh words for the decision of New Mexico election officials to recount some 379 ballots there by hand after they were rejected by electronic voting machines on Tuesday. Those hand-counted ballots helped give Mr. Bush a lead in the state of four votes out of nearly 600,000 cast. And they did not criticize Republicans in one Florida county, Seminole County, who joined with Democrats to count many ballots by hand after they were spit out of voting machines without being tabulated. That recount gave Mr. Bush a net gain of 98 votes, no small sum in a state where his unofficial lead is now 327. Then there is the Texas bill that Mr. Bush signed into law in 1997: it states that when Texas elections are recounted, "a manual recount shall be conducted in preference to an electronic recount."
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 21:48:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Yup, gee, let's count the whole gosh durned country!
Ha!
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 21:31:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Here's a map which clearly shows all counties subject to the possible recount! http://www.geocities.com/statechurch/goregive.htm
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 21:29:52 (EST)
My two cents are: No counting is necessary, socialist swine! We know Bush is the Man.
A. Priori
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 21:11:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Count the whole damn country if necessary. Pubbies just don't get it, or, better, they don't want to get it.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 20:26:19 (EST)
My two cents are: If only Bush had won big as predicted, we wouldn't be having these annoyances. As it is, we have to try to count all the votes to make sure that the winner is the legitimate winner. Bush secretly wants this, because he has character, but that asshole Colin Powell is running the show.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 20:17:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Idon't believe the count was fair to begin with, Pete. Not when The Weed has an 1800 votelead which is whittled down twice in recounts because the old machines weren't up to the task. I want an honest count. Count the whole damn state over........John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 20:08:11 (EST)
My two cents are: John, the only reason it is complicated now is Gore will not accept the first two counts which show he lost. It is simple, unless you are a liberal grasping at anything to change the result. In these other countries they just shoot people. Here, we just shoot ourselves in the foot listening to liberals pretend they know how to run the country or administer order.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:56:55 (EST)
My two cents are: I wish the people overseas would stop ridiculing this process. We don't have people out on the street shooting one another and tanks running over Mercedes and Fords. // These other countries should be able to change leaders as easy as we do. Yes , this is easy compared to what it could be. Candidates all over the world get shot every year just for having the guts to run for any kind of office.........John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:48:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Chris Matthews got it half-right. If Gore wins, it's because he engaged in more ballot fraud than any previous candidate in history.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:44:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore is going to be Pres and The Weed is going have to stop calling Laura the First Lady no matter how many boils he gets..............John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:41:14 (EST)
My two cents are: Actually, it seems to me tha gore goons are the ones clawing here. i mean, they lost the original count, the second count and are now relying on the interpretation of 3 Democrats in a Democrat county to interpret the law and ballots in favor of Gore. Sounds really desperate to me. And even when that is done, it is likely that Bush will still win given the absentees and potential recounts looming in Republican dominated counties. This can all be averted by Dems following the recount law since there has been no machine error (Mumfor aside) and Bush won the first two counts. We can keep counting Dem precincts until he wins, of course. But that is not how elections are supposed to proceed. There is a law preventing that unless you can show a machine error. Here, all we ahve is Dem spin and the desperation of a loser trying to find any way possible to spin and change the outcome.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:36:34 (EST)
My two cents are: well,, every hotel in austin is double booked. The "transition planning" is not much more than wishful thinking and getting less attention hour by hour. protestors still continue to mount at the governopr's mansion, which is probably why he bailed to tge ranch and the security of knowing all is right with the worls that a lawn-jockey provides. Shrubbie continues his despondent demeanor,visibly depressed with not a tea service the boil if sin continues to swell. perhaps if elected, he coud have it removed and sling it as the first pitch of the series. Ms ydogs take is that the bushies jumped the gun on criticizing the reports of exit polls, She feels. I mean look at bushie, clawing tooth and nail for a victory, Learned from his daddy I suppose//
ydog
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:29:17 (EST)
My two cents are: Don't get too excited. They may never come or may never be counted towards the final result.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:23:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Don't get too excited. They may never come or may never be counted towards the fianl result.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:23:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Can't wait til the new vote counts come in. I came to work for a quick second, now I go home. Til tomorrow.
Whatever
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:16:27 (EST)
My two cents are: I wonder if chads can be used to cover swollen, bitten lips?
Juanita Broadrick
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:14:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Good that Baker is concerned about mischief. With all those cameras and all those observers, wayward Republicans might be tempted to try pasting back the chads!
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 19:02:45 (EST)
My two cents are: It goes to show that in a close election it is a good idea to count the votes.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:57:03 (EST)
My two cents are: No, there were 68,000 to count that for some reason were never originally counted. When they were counted, Gore's lead evaporated. Then they found more to count which put Bush over the top. If you ahd stayed up with it by reading the Albuquerque news online, you might have a clue. The counting is still not over and they have not counted all absentees either.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:55:10 (EST)
My two cents are: Why doesn't the Junior take the high road and call for counting the ballots? Because he might not get to the high pie, that's why. He feels that the high pie is on his platter and somebody mean is trying to snatch it away. Some people would get headaches if this happened. Other's would develop irritable bowel syndrom. A few would contract boils.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:54:19 (EST)
My two cents are: This Baker is a cool customer. A lesser man would break out in boils.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:48:39 (EST)
My two cents are: No, anon, that is not what the law says. You ahve to show a problem with the machine or tabulation system. That was not found by the canvassing board. They expressly said so in their conference.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:47:18 (EST)
My two cents are: This Baker sound like an evil bastard. He's threatening to count votes now. So you want to count votes, eh? Well you asked for it, we'll show you how to count votes. We may be forced into it if you are going to continue with recount after recount after recount until the full number of recounts specified in the Florida election law is reached. We'll count votes in Iowa, we'll count them in Wisconsin, by god we may even count them in Oregon! You'll rue the day you ever entered into this pissing contest.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:46:42 (EST)
My two cents are: What is really being played out here is that when the District Court denies the baker request to halt the hadn counting, they will then concede and ask that ALL counties be handcounted. Then they are justified in doing so because the District Court said no halt. This is a no lose situation for Bush. If the Court denies the request, then handcounts may be requested everywhere. If the Court grants the request, then the handcounting stops and it is over. The ball is in the loser's court. We all know what Gore will do. He will opt for more confusion and delays. He has no alternative as he is losing, unless he decides to take the high road and concede. We all know how likely that is with Democrats.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:46:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes! Concede, Junior, and stop the plague of boils!
God puts boils on Losers
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:43:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah and Florida law says a candidate can request a hand recount and if there is enough evidence to warrant one, it will be granted. Bush should concede for the good of the country and to stop the plague of boils.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:41:28 (EST)
My two cents are: AP: "If Bush fails to win an injunction against the manual counts, a prospect that even GOP officials say is likely, his next step would be fateful. Senior strategists say Bush is likely to seek recounts in some GOP-dominated Florida counties if the Gore-backed recounts and overseas balloting put him in danger of losing the lead. Baker said recounts may be called in close-voting states won by Gore, such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Oregon - or too-close-to-call New Mexico. "If the Gore campaign is going to continue to call for recount after recount after recount until they are satisfied with the result, we may be forced to suggest there may be recounts in all these states," Baker said.
How ironis, E agrees with Baker.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:40:34 (EST)
My two cents are: He's only ahead in New Mexico because they counted all disputed ballots, those with chads hanging by one thread. What they ought to do is run the punch cards through about ten times. That would produce ten different results as hanging chads drop off from being handled.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:39:04 (EST)
My two cents are: No, it is 4. Handcounts are governed by State law.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:36:10 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush is ahead in New Mexico by all of 7 votes. Time to hand recount all the close precincts in close states.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 18:04:05 (EST)
My two cents are: If you think this is tough on George W. Bush, think what it's doing to Wayne Newton. This would be the big one, like the '81 inaugural was for Donny Osmond.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:55:50 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, the biased press conference is an old DemocRAT trick. They hardly ever present the Republican side of the picture. The news media aid and abet them by not broadcasting the entire biased events, so nobody ever gets the true picture of Democrats unashamedly adopting Democratic party attitudes.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:48:11 (EST)
My two cents are: That's a pretty low blow, claiming that Democrats are biased.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:45:01 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, it sounds odd, but counting some votes where the chad didn't drop off is not fair to the people who changed their minds after probing the card a little. Right there is probably more than enough to change the election results, all those Florida Hamlets, indecisive, bouncing the punch on the ballot but not being sure whether to drive it all the way through. The court will surely realize this, that there is no way to determine intent because of the voters who checked swing at the last split second.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:41:42 (EST)
My two cents are: WEST PALM BEACH, Fla., Nov. 12 �� Amid dozens of disputes and seemingly seat-of-the-pants rule changes, county election workers labored all afternoon and night Saturday to manually recount 4,500 ballots in four heavily Democratic Palm Beach County precincts requested by Vice President Gore's campaign. The result was a gain of 33 votes for Gore and 14 for Texas Gov. George W. Bush in the manual recount, but a mechanical recount gave Gore 36 more votes and subtracted three from Bush, county election officials announced at 1:45 a.m. today. The tedious process--which by one account came up with 500 "questionable" ballots--began at midday Saturday after workers broke the seal on metal ballot boxes brought to the county office building under police escort. They divided into six teams of three, with a Republican and Democratic observer watching each, and the three-member canvassing board--all Democrats--presiding over the review. By early Saturday evening, more than four hours after the counting started, the uncertainties, tension and high stakes involved became apparent when county officials emerged at a rancorous news conference that served to underscore the confusion about how the task of manually reviewing the ballots should be done. County election spokesman Bob Nichols came out to announce the counters were abandoning the "sunlight" test that had been announced previously to examine ballots that did not register a vote for president. Under that standard, if one of the counters held a ballot up to the light and a speck shone through where a voter obviously meant to punch a hole but did not quite tear through the ballot, then that vote was to be tallied. Nichols said that test was being replaced with one looking at the condition of the "chad"--the part of the ballot that would fall away if the hole had been properly punched. Under the new determination, the chad would have to be partially detached for the ballot to count. Nichols said about a quarter of the ballots had been reviewed and that officials would go back and recheck the ones that had been accepted as votes under the "sunlight" test. Shortly after, Nichols offered a graduate-level seminar on reviewing paper ballots. Those ballots that would be counted as votes for president, he said, were "hanging," "swinging," and "tri" chads, pushed three-fourths out; not counted would be those with chads that were merely bulgingly "pregnant" or "dimpled." Reporters, he said, could get sample ballots to examine the possibilities for themselves. There were roughly 75 to 100 "questionable" ballots from each of the six teams of counters, for an estimated total of 500 questionable ballots. But Nichols would not confirm that number, which came from the sole pool reporter who was allowed inside the room. As the day progressed, testy exchanges became more frequent. Canvassing board member Carol Roberts was holding up a ballot when Democratic observer Kuehne reached toward it pointing out what he thought was the Gore punch hole. "Don't touch it," said Marc Wallace, the Republican observing attorney. "I'm not touching it," Kuehne replied. The counters were also growing tired. At one point Charles Burton, a Palm Beach county criminal court judge who heads the canvassing board, yawned several times saying, "I'm losing it, I tell you." There were also flashes of partisan wrangling. Wallace, the Republican, said he felt that canvassing board members were favoring the Democrats. "I'm feeling ganged-up on," he said. "This is going to be an extremely long day," Burton had said hours earlier, and he proved to be right. For all the uproar over the proper standards for review, as theater, the recount was the equivalent of watching someone else take a very long test. Sitting at work tables in an office at the boxy county office building here, the counting teams peered closely at the ballots to determine how they were marked. They looked for all the world like uncomfortable participants in a tax or insurance seminar, consulting with one another as they examined the ballots stacked on the table before them. Today, the focus was not on the well-publicized confusion caused by the design of the county's "butterfly" ballot and the possible double voting that occurred as a result, but on more than 10,000 ballots countywide that Democrats say curiously registered no vote for president at all. Although today's recounters were checking only four precincts amounting to about 1 percent of the total county vote--precincts selected by the Florida Democratic Party--the discovery of enough mistakes could prompt a hand count of all 450,000 county votes. In a ground-floor room with reporters peering through windows at them, the counters labored over 12 piles of ballots, 10 of them representing votes cast for the 10 presidential candidates listed on the ballot, the 11th stack for under-voted ballots, the 12th for those with more than one vote for president. Observers from the Democratic and Republican parties stood sentry. "I think this is ridiculous," said Barbara Jones, a physician from Wellington, Fla., who was acting as an official Republican observer of the proceedings. "I think the recount we've already done is sufficient. This shouldn't go on forever." But Kuehne, the Democratic observer, had another view. "Things went great, better than great," Kuehne said after the manual recount was finished but before the results were announced. "It's shocking to realize how poor voting machines are and how many true votes are lost. The only truly reliable method is to have a hand count." In a meeting before cameras and microphones at 2 a.m., Roberts called for a manual recount of all the county's presidential votes. The counting was also tedious farther north in Volusia County, where election officials were forced today to postpone a mammoth recount by hand of 184,000 votes in Tuesday's presidential election when beleaguered members of their canvassing board were unable to complete a preliminary review of write-in votes. By Saturday afternoon, the inspection of write-ins produced four more votes for Vice President Gore, one more for Texas Gov. George W. Bush and one more for Libertarian Party candidate Harry Browne. One voter proposed "Jesus" for president, but the canvassing board discarded it as an unauthorized write-in. The slow going illustrated the imperfect art of counting votes. The three members of the canvassing board, two Republicans and one Democrat, had started looking at the write-ins, one by one, on Thursday, voting separately on each one as they pulled them out of large manilla envelopes marked by the precinct they came from. By around 3 p.m. Saturday, they had waded through 260 and had no idea how many more were in the envelopes they had yet to open. Volusia County spokesman Dave Byron said the board was determined to finish its review of write-ins and be ready this morning to preside over the manual recount. But the manual count is expected to take 2 1/2 days, even with teams working back-to-back seven-hour shifts, and the county could be hard pressed to finish by the 5 p.m. Tuesday deadline for certifying the results to Tallahassee.
This will take another millenium to resolve
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:36:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Right, tough to understand this changing the mind thing and how it relates to pregnant chads. Is it sort of like the voter was toying with the punch, maybe I will, poke, maybe I won't, maybe I will, poke, maybe I won't, maybe I will, poke, nah, I won't, and fortunately the doo-hicky is still hanging there, I can see it and won't ask for a new ballot.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:36:08 (EST)
My two cents are: System error seems more plausible than oops I pushed it out but it's still hanging by a hair and I changed my mind anyway and decided not to vote for anyone.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:32:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Too bad they have not replayed the whole Democrat Press conference which was on at 2 am last night. Then you will see real bias in action.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:25:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry, but the finding of the canvassing board was human error, not system error. The woman who was voting one of the two against one said so herself. This will in fact be used in court to stop the recount. They counted soft punched ballots and then tried to determine intent. There is no way to determine intent since someone could have been changing their mind. There is no way to tell. That is why the lady called it human error. I am not making this up. But I am glad to see you have reverted to your usual liberal vulgarities. Sorry, but time will run out on your guy's attempted coup or the Court will not allow this coup to succeed.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:24:21 (EST)
My two cents are: The chads not falling off IS a systemic problem. Dunce.
E <thanks for your conservative namecalling tactics!>
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:18:31 (EST)
My two cents are: So you'd rather just push push in that Bush? Ridiculous. Shows you don't give a shit about what people really voted for. You just care for your paranoid anti-democrat agenda. End of story. Move to Afghanistan.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:17:17 (EST)
My two cents are: Baker is on TV blabbing about "subjectivity" which is pretty stupid. As if determining whether a chad is clinging by one two or three corners is "subjective." Asshole.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:14:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Spoken like a true loser. More proof you do not care about the country, only yourself and your agenda. You guys lost two counts already. Don't worry, before your kind is allowed to drag this out forever, the Court will stop it.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:12:33 (EST)
My two cents are: If it takes a month, sobeit. If they have to do it in all the close states, sobeit. I'd rather have it done carefully and properly.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:10:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Now, I will say a handcount in Volusia County might make sense only because we know there were some serious computer problems in that county. One gave the Socialist Workers Party candidate about 10,000 votes which were mostly wiped out ont he recount. But even there, after the second count, there was no direct finding of a system problem. Clearly there was one ont eh first count, but after the second, there was no direct finding of a system problem. Anyway, if Florida needs to handcount every single ballot int eh state to find out who wins, then so be it. But they can't just do it in heavily Democratic precincts and counties. The alw of averages needs to be applied evenly. Just like equal rights, equal protection and discrimination. Equality for all, not preferences for a few.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 17:03:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Example: Bush gaining ground in Repub counties: "(11/12/00) -- Polk County elections workers and campaign representatives pushed through a grueling 17-hour day only to find out early Sunday morning that Gore lost a crucial 90 votes from his Election Day total in a single precinct. Polk was completing a routine exercise of reconciling accounting errors in 92 of its 163 precincts. It happened in a predominantly black voting precinct in Lakeland where the vice president had dominated the count. The error was a larger example of the minor discrepancies that had shown up in other precincts. Polk County uses a system where ballots are marked with a pen and scanned into a machine; most of the ballots are counted at the precincts throughout Election Day while late voters' ballots are sent to the supervisor of elections' office for counting. Elections officials said it appears that poll workers counted 90 ballots that had already been scanned at the precinct, but put them in an envelope marked for unscanned ballots. When the envelope was returned to headquarters for a final count, the 90 ballots were counted a second time. "
Incompetants Anonymous
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 16:43:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Junior's reptiles talking about "scorched earth" policy they'll follow if Gore wins in Florida. Pubbie napalm equals hand counting ballots? Whatta worldview.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 16:13:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Right E, and the point is, anyone can find human errors favoring Gore in HEAVILY Democrat precincts. Similarly, there will be human errors in haevily Republican precincts. But to unwind every single one will take months. It took these guys 10 hours to count just 1% of the ballots by ahnd and rerun them. To finish the otehr 99% will take a month. Then we ONLY have Palm. So what about the human error in Duvall with 26,000 ballots thrown out? Duvall went heavily Bush. Surely, there will be a few hundred Bush rejects that eh will take. This can be repeated everywhere. Waht is happeniong is the loser now has nothing to lose but fudge and confuse the results of the first count (for Bush) and the second count (for Bush) with a highly select Democrat sample which cannot be solved any time soon because to duplicate ahnd recounts would take weeks. That is why the system ahs a statute which says, unless you can show SYSTEM error with the machines, hand counts should not proceed. That is what this third fight is all about. But it is being spun incorrectly by the media and Democrats who are grasping at any straw to retain power. It has to be over. The Statute says so because there was no system error uncovered.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 16:07:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Fat chance with the media. Eyebrows are twitching the quit signal to Bush. The only way the media are going to let the cat out of the bag is if they get a really convincing Open Letter on the subject. It's the last hope of the western world, of civilization as we know it.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 16:01:19 (EST)
My two cents are: It's bullshit. Hand counts are the most reliable--everybody knows this, especially Junior's team. That's why they're running scared. They know Junior's a loser.// Have you seen the SNL parodies on MSNBC? They're great.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 16:00:48 (EST)
My two cents are: The only way Bush is going to go down in the book as anything but a laughing stalk is to bitterly bow out, and take a position as president of Texas A&M. From there he could have a good thirty years telling the world that Al Gore said he invented the internet. Beats getting all tangled up in social security and tax policy and nation-building.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:57:31 (EST)
My two cents are: This whole election is now based on questionable legality for a further hand count based on random human errors located in heavily Democrat precincts, not system errors. If you are already the loser in the first two counts, you have nothing to lose by gumming up the country by insisting on more and more. In the end, random human error should balance itself out in Republican adn Democrat counties. There is no way to timely resolve this before January 20, mush less next Tuesday. So there will be a certification battle. This is the angle the Dems are working now. They will alson try to pressure Bush to quit arguing he did not get the popular overall national vote. However, we live in a Republican democracy of States rights. The Constitution guarantees to the States a Republiocan form of government in Article IV, Section 4. Bush won a majority of the popular votes in a majority of States. This is what the framers of the Constitution sought to protect. That is where Bush wins. The media needs to start educating people on all sides of the issue.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:55:17 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi,Pete. I see. Well, at least the number that was not counted is close between the two counties. This would make the disenfranchised voters a non-issue, since both parties thousands disqualified. What a mess, but I guess Florida is used to this from past elections. I think they can work this out. I feel sorry for Jeb Bush.
Mary
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:55:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Georgie Boils might not want to fight, Pete, but you can rely on folks like Cheney and Baker, fellas from the old school, to duke it out blow for blow. There's plenty of time between now and the electoral vote to mix it up good. Problem with the old guys, though, is they're a little tired, four years past the point of exhaustion they would have reached if Clinton hadn't cheated them out of an administration with less than 50% of the vote. Hard for the sleepy old dudes to speak of the good of the country with anything resembling conviction. They're lying out of sheer reflex memory, and not savoring it the way a healthy Republican should. If Boils had any balls, he would have picked his advisors out of the congress, Trent Lott, Tom Delay, that funny-looking guy who lost his run for Florida senator. Those guys still have it.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:50:08 (EST)
My two cents are: One problem Mary, the Constitution only allows for a vote on election day. You cannot have a revote in only select counties. It is going to come down to the Florida Sect'y of State ignoring those counties who do not report by Tuesday. Then it will be up to the Court to enjoin the Florida Electoral vote. It will depend partly on whether Florida's Electors are even allowed to vote on Dec. 18. If they do not, then Gore wins with a majority, unless the US Supreme Court extends that deadline until Florida is resolved. In the end, the US Supreme court will have the final say, unless someone quits.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:47:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Tell me counselor E, what does the Florida State law require as a condition precedent to a third count by hand? Hint: it involves a system error.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:44:12 (EST)
My two cents are: My new opinion: Revote. Duvall County has 22, 000 ballots nullified, probably the majority went to Bush. Palm Beach has 19, 000 nullified, the majority for Gore. Include Pat Buchanan's vote's and the number is close the 22, 000 in Duvall. Why not have a revote,and the will of the voters will be heard. Local candidates and local measures will have their votes counted. We can avoid the conflict of disputed hand counts and court battles.
Mary
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:42:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Gee Pete, the damn Judge was appointed by Clinton. Doggone,hope it goes well. Don't want any biased Judges ruling here.........John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:29:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush isn't taking the high road. He's trying to bully his way in, when he knows he's lost both national and Florida votes. Poor Junior.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:04:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Look, what really weird is Florida not even counting pregnant chads and dimples. They definitely determined the election between Johnston and Delahunt up here. The idea is not to leave out as many people's votes as possible, it's to count as many as possible. A difficult concept for Retchies, I guess.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:03:07 (EST)
My two cents are: So, it's human error when a chad fails to fall? Nah. That's chad error.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:01:03 (EST)
My two cents are: A second recount is allowed only to determine if there is a system problem. That was done. What they found was HUMAN error, not a system error. The statute does not allow for a total recount of the county based on a sample of human error. Read the statute. I guarantee you that will be the issue come Monday morning in court. Gore is simply liberalizing the statutes to pull out a win. The truth is Bush won the first count, the recount and now we are in litigation over the meaning of a statute where random human error samples appeared in a heavily weighted precinct where human errors will of course favor the winners in that precinct. The same could be said of Duvall where 26,000 ballots were thrown out. If you are going to recount for all human error samples, which is not what the statute says you can do, then you might as well try to determine the human error intent in every single county. You can't because it was human ERROR. It may be they intended not to punch all the way because they changed their mind, but there is no way to know this unless you ask the voter. That is why we have an electronic system. So, if you are going to liberally bend the rules in Palm, you gotta do a manual recount everywhere. Fair is fair. In the end, Bush will lose that fight because if only Palm is counted on Monday and Tuesday, they will get enough changes by then to affect the outcome. Bush, once again taking the high road, will likely be left out in the cold because only the Dems have challenged high concentration Democrat Counties. They have cherry picked for error. Bush better start fighting. He can't simply rely on overseas ballots. He has to fight this in court on Monday to invalidate the second recount as contrary to statute or alternatively seek recounts in all counties by getting an injunction to extend the deadline. The Dems have been stearing to this result and once again Repubs are asleap at the switch trying to claim the high ground. This is war. If Bush ain't going to fight, he will lose.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 15:00:23 (EST)
My two cents are: The State of Fla is conducting this recount, Pete. Thankfully, it isn't you or Jeb Bush, he did enough already. The woman in charge says there were enough mistakes to warrant a complete tecount of the county. You and Baker might not agree with this but no one expected you to so who cares. Gore is gaining every hour. By the time court convenes tomorrow he should be in the lead and those results will be known to the world./.............John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:52:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Must we drag this on? Shouldn't the pressure be on the electors to do the right thing and support the candidate with the highest popular vote? Why, yes. of course.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:49:56 (EST)
My two cents are: I beg to differ. The recount is allowed to the point where they must determine if there is a system problem. That was done. They found HUMAN error, not a system error. The statute does not allow for a total recount of the county for a sample of human error. Read the statute. I guarantee you that will be the issue come Monday morning in court. Gore is simply liberalizing the statutes to pull out a win. The truth si Bush won the first count, the recount and now we are in littigation over the meaning of a statute where random human error samples appeared. If you are going to count human error samples which is not what the statute says you can do, then you might as well count human errors by trying to determine intent in every single county. That is why we ahve an electronic system. So, if youa re going to bend the rules in Palm, you gotta do a manual everywhere. Fair is fair.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:37:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Is Bush Junior's B strategy to take this matter, via an appeal to the 3rd Circuit, to the Supreme Court?
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:36:29 (EST)
My two cents are: And Anon.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:35:07 (EST)
My two cents are: Omigod. I agree with Pete!
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:34:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Sure, Pete, if those states and counties agree there's sufficient reason for a recount. No problema.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:30:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Hand count in Florida is ordered by state law, and being accomplished according to state law. End of story.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:24:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Lizard sex.
Matty and Jimmy
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:17:25 (EST)
My two cents are: I say, let's hand count the whole states of Florida, Oregon, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, NM and NH. Let's do it and not elect anyone until every single one is recount and all absentees received. Count everything.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:16:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Thanks, John. I like Matalin and Carville. We should all get along so well.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:05:17 (EST)
My two cents are: The hand count in Florida is the most observed in history. All the bullshit about "mischief" ignores the fact that W signed a hand count bill into law in Texas 3 years ago. Also, any requested hand counts by Bush in other Florida counties must be judged by the number of "anomalies" asserted. This is not some automatic thing. The Palm Beach recount was approved after a 1% sample was projecte to give Gore about 1900 additional votes. The GOP counties would have to meet a similar finding in a sampling. Since no other county uses the same kind of ballot, Bush is probably pissing up a rope. In fact, a sampling in the GOP counties might show a gain for Gore.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 14:01:04 (EST)
My two cents are: The voter might have decided not to vote for the person so they did not push it to hard or stopped half way through. There is no way to tell unless you ASK the voter. That is unwieldy. Plus the sample here was from a heavily Democratic precinct which is not truly representative of the whole county. So it would skew the results. Finally, there has to be machine or system error, not human error. The board did NOT find machine or system error. They specifically said it was HUMAN ERROR. But how do they know???
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 13:58:47 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry E was watching something. Pats play the Browns. watched Carville and Matalin. Carville really disgusted with Nader........John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 12:44:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Ground garlic as in pushed through a garlic press. Could be chopped fine, also.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 12:05:07 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi, Y. No recipe. Just get leg of lamb, throw some good olive oil on a plate or something, throw in a lot of rosemary, fresh ground black pepper, salt, lots of ground garlic. Mush into paste and apply to lamb leg. Make cuts in lamb leg, and push paste inside. Could sliver some extra garlic and slip those into cuts, too. Leave at room temp for a few hours before roasting. How is Austin dealing with the election?
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 12:04:24 (EST)
My two cents are: Hand count in NM garnered 7K extra votes for Junior. Baker's not bitching about that, so far. Leads in NM by all of 4 votes. // Can't stand Junior, but can't stand Junior's reptile re-treads, either. Worse than I thought it would be, Baker and Cheyney and all of Daddy's used pod people. Junior looks like such a jerk, even Pete's noticed.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 12:00:16 (EST)
My two cents are: Hand count in NM garnered 7K extra votes for Junior. Baker's not bitching about that, so far. Leads in NM by all of 4 votes. // Can't stand Junior, but can't stand Junior's reptile re-treads, either. Worse th such as jerk, even Pete's noticed.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 12:00:03 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds good E. do you have a recipe for that? We've decided on chicken and dumplings today
ydog
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 11:58:19 (EST)
My two cents are: One o'clock? Time to tape. Who are they playing, John?
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 11:56:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Letter in paper this AM suggested that vote shows America's unconscious wants Clinton to remain President.
no lame duck
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 11:54:23 (EST)
My two cents are: The Weed has a 288 vote lead in Fla...A decreasing lead ..John �
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 11:53:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Pats play or are on the field at 1pm, E. Total recount in Palm Beach and Volusia Counties. Lets get at it. Baker is on spinning like crazy. Quoting Texas law as applying to Fla. He doesn't want a full recount. Says hand recount is not better than machine..........john�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 11:07:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Make that Pinocchio.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 11:00:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Lots of talk here about human error versus machine error. How do you count chad error? As in when a human has correctly punched a hole in the card, but the chad has not fallen? Bush Junior says this should not count. Junior's a nervous person these days. Even making Pete nervous. Junior's clearly not up to the job. Can't even make a statement without having Stealth President-elect Cheney jump in to correct Pinnochio George.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 10:59:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning, all. Found an Australian leg of lamb yesterday, brought it home to make today for my Australian. Ready to roll it in garlic, rosemary, olive oil, salt and pepper and let it come to room temperature. Not sure if the Pats are playing at 1 or at 4; Jets aren't on until 8. Two football games are a bit much for me, really. Plus the Jets game conflicts with the tawdry OJ movie--I heard bits of it on the radio, sounds like just the thing to perk one up while we wait to see which way the chads will fall.
E
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 10:46:50 (EST)
My two cents are: Just dropped by nopete, been pretty busy lately. hope to update it again soon.
ydog
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 09:54:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Maybe some curried chicken. perhaps some funky cheese and some sam smiths beer for the afternoon.
ydog
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 09:43:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning yall. went looking at model trainsets yesterday. bought ms ydog a hot dog at kmart, hit a few garage sales on the way. not much of interest. overcast today, chance of rain, may try and play a little tennis. dogs need baths. What to cook? unknown. bought more of the dollar 69 sirloins yesterday and grilled one up and froze the rest. Maybe some fish, been awhile.
ydog
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 09:36:16 (EST)
My two cents are: The intent of the law is to count the votes accurately you moron.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 08:11:19 (EST)
My two cents are: I mean all they ahd to find were about 5 one way or the otehr and they could make that extrapolation. We could replay this throughout the country adn get differnet counts. 26,000 ballots were thrown out in Duvall county, a heavy repub county. This will never end.

- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:37:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, now we can apply ydog's "intent" of the law. Machine error, not human error. Check.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:16:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Weren't the precincts selected the most heavily democratic of the county? Why did they not figure this into their estimation?
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:14:24 (EST)
My two cents are: error in the vote tabulation = machine count
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:07:25 (EST)
My two cents are: (5) If the manual recount indicates an error in the vote tabulation which could affect the outcome of the election, the county canvassing board shall: (a) Correct the error and recount the remaining precincts with the vote tabulation system; (b) Request the Department of State to verify the tabulation software; or (c) Manually recount all ballots. Republicans will argue that the errors must be in the vote tabulation system, here the machine counts, as indicated by (a) and (b), both clauses designed to correct ERRORS in the tabulation system. (c) seems read that there also can be a manual recount of the error, but of course it is implied that the correction is for the error.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:06:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, g'night Hum. Wink.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:02:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, one final thing. I'd say this is Jeb Bush's last term as Governor. His second in command will ignore Palm Beach if not certified by Tuesday and give the election to Bush. That is the short term end game. G'night.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 04:01:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Bob Crawford, who replaced Gov. Jeb Bush as commissioner of Florida's Canvassing Commission, said Saturday that if a county misses the state's deadline for certifying results, the entire county's vote will be thrown out. "The statue is very clear that if a county's results are not to us by 5 p.m. Tuesday we shall ignore that county's vote, and the counties need to be very aware of that," Crawford told reporters. "Candidates asking for recounts need to be aware of that." 102.112 Deadline for submission of county returns to the Department of State; penalties.-- (1) The county canvassing board or a majority thereof shall file the county returns for the election of a federal or state officer with the Department of State immediately after certification of the election results. Returns must be filed by 5 p.m. on the 7th day following the first primary and general election and by 3 p.m. on the 3rd day following the second primary. If the returns are not received by the department by the time specified, such returns may be ignored and the results on file at that time may be certified by the department. (2) The department shall fine each board member $200 for each day such returns are late, the fine to be paid only from the board member's personal funds. Such fines shall be deposited into the 1Election Campaign Financing Trust Fund, created by s. 106.32. (3) Members of the county canvassing board may appeal such fines to the Florida Elections Commission, which shall adopt rules for such appeals.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:56:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Wrong, the Dep't of State woman advised their opinion on the statute requires a systemic error, which can i9nclude machine error, but not simple human error. The nail was put into the coffin when the one lady said they did not find a machine (or systemic error) but did find human error in the smaple they tested. This will be litigated. But the Dems objective here is to undermine the election and question Bush's legitimacy. Same stuff with Clinton's attack on the system. This is the result with liberals at the helm. Whatever way to readu it to suit their self interested agenda. The country's interest never comes first. Night.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:53:40 (EST)
My two cents are: This Pete character seems unclear on the meaning of the word systemic - thinks it means machines. What a moron.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:48:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like an easy legal challenge on the grounds for the recount. Sounds like the Dem lawyer circl;ing the women in the back was telling them what to say. The woman on the left clearly said it was not machine error, but voter error. The statute seems intended for systemic errors. Sounds like another lawsuit and injuction to prevent the recount will need to be initiated. I thought there was no vote on the second motion. But reports are that there was one for a recount. But nothing will ahppen until Monday. So, this may conflict with the Tuesday deadline and possibly disregard all of Palm County's results. A recount could take a month at this rate. This is out of hand!!! Get ready for scorched earth!!
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:39:19 (EST)
My two cents are: Seeing this fiasco for myself. I think Bush now has a leg to stand on in his case or else the Tuesday deadline for the County results will mean Palm County's will not be voted because there is NO WAY they can do it before Tuesday. This is politics as usual and more efforts of Dems to muddy the waters. The statute requires a finding of a systemic problem before a recount. Two people said it was not machine error but voter error. So there is no legal basis for a recount.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:38:25 (EST)
My two cents are: 1% of the vote took 10 hours to recount. the 99 remaining will take a month. Well after certification deadline. Then no Palm County in the result. This is nonsense! Injunction!
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:22:57 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, whatever it was, the condition precedent is a systemic failure. Legal. Legal. Legal. Get ready for scorched earth.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:21:22 (EST)
My two cents are: The news is reporting that there is a recount, but there was no second to the motion that I heard.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:19:58 (EST)
My two cents are: No motion to recount. There was no finding of machine error which is a condition precedent.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:14:39 (EST)
My two cents are: NOT due to machine error. It was voter error so legally they cannot have manual recount. Bitch liar democrat. Fucking politics.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:13:45 (EST)
My two cents are: The reocunt versus teh absentee is what? This is all so nonsensical. Ready set SUE!!
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:12:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Get ready for the scorched earth policy of the parties now. Chaos reigns supreme. Was it a machine error or human asisstance? The democrat lady is chomping at the bit. This is still all polittics. No wonder we can't do this any longer. Good grief.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:10:15 (EST)
My two cents are: I must say, Pete is particularly cogent this evening.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 03:00:10 (EST)
My two cents are: The democrat lady injects herself into the process. This is what they were all worried about.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 02:56:05 (EST)
My two cents are: So, this extrapolates to 33 net up for Gore Bush got 14 votes. 2 to 1 as expected. Same as who knows what. So, are they going to go for a total? This is all so statistically irrelevant. In a heavily Democrat county this is obviously expected. So, that leaves us where they were. Recount everyone, then. Motion of lady Democrat: 1900 projection which would affect it. So, she calls for manual recount for election of all ballots. Gee, what a surprise.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 02:54:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Results: +36 in computer for Gore. It is statistically what?
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 02:49:34 (EST)
My two cents are: "The statute is very clear that if a county's results are not to us by 5 p.m. Tuesday we shall ignore that county's vote, and the counties need to be very aware of that," Crawford told reporters. "Candidates asking for recounts need to be aware of that."
End of Story
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 02:18:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, I forgot. Thank you Veterans. You too Humlette. Wink.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:46:30 (EST)
My two cents are: If Bush, who currently has 246 electoral college votes, were to lose Florida, he would need to win a Wisconsin recount under any scenario that would give him the 270 votes required to prevail. The hypothetical winning combinations for Bush, with Wisconsin and without Florida, are: He wins Oregon and Iowa to get to 271 votes. He wins either Oregon or Iowa, along with New Mexico and one vote from Maine, to get to 270.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:45:24 (EST)
My two cents are: OK, I just read the Bush complaint and tRO. They make some ok arguments, but I think they will lose. I think they filed this as a setup for appeal to the US Supreme Court in the event this selective recount backfires. I see the bush strategy to be to forget recounts in Fla. and take a legal Due Process challenge to the Supreme Court based on his winning the first count and the first recount. This later recount is considered duplicative and violates equal protection if not appleied equally throughout all counties. So we ahve a 14th amendment challenge which will cewrtainly faila t this level but be used for appeal. I see recounts being the objective in the otehr states to halt Gore's advance if Gore switches the outcome. Looks like Courts will be the final arbiter unless someone blinks. I still think they ought to withdraw the lawsuit and may tonight or tomorrow based on the recount outcome. Othewrwise they preserve their right to appeal immediately to the US Supreme court which is: voila Conservative. They are expecting results in 15 minutes. Man, this is too much!!!
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:32:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Democrats should be careful about what they wish for.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:08:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Bob Crawford, who replaced Gov. Jeb Bush as commissioner of Florida's Canvassing Commission, said Saturday that if a county misses the state's deadline for certifying results, the entire county's vote will be thrown out. "The statute is very clear that if a county's results are not to us by 5 p.m. Tuesday we shall ignore that county's vote, and the counties need to be very aware of that," Crawford told reporters. "Candidates asking for recounts need to be aware of that."
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 01:06:55 (EST)
My two cents are: JACKSONVILLE, Fla. �� About 26,000 ballots with more than one presidential candidate or no candidate marked were disqualified in Duval County and never counted, election officials said Saturday. Duval County is as solidly Republican as Palm Beach County is Democratic. Texas Gov. George W. Bush carried Duval County by more than 44,000 votes. Officials said there was no way to know how the nullified ballots affected the race between Bush and Vice President Al Gore. In Tuesday's vote, 21,942 ballots were nullified when voters punched their ballots for two candidates for president. An additional 4,967 did not vote for president or did not punch the ballot hard enough for their vote to be regist Gore. In Tuesday's vote, 21,942 ballots were nullified when voters punched their ballots for two candidates for president. An additional 4,967 did not vote for president or did not punch the ballot hard enough for their vote to be registered, said Susan Tucker Johnson, a spokeswoman for Duval County Supervisor of Elections John Stafford. The disqualified ballots represent about 9 percent of the 291,626 cast Tuesday. The ballot Duval County used was of a different design than the disputed "butterfly" ballot used in Palm Beach County. In Duval County, 10 presidential candidates and one write-in candidate were listed on two pages. At the bottom of the first page, in larger, bolder type, voters were instructed to turn the page for more choices in the presidential race. Voters, Johnson said, probably picked one candidate on the first page and then voted for another presidential candidate on the second page.
Anonymous.
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:57:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Handcounting in counties will in fact favor Bush. Bush took many more counties. Once you go down this road, you might as well count everything, but that is exactly what I expect a socialsit anarchist to do. If Gore forces hand counts everywhere, his goal is jury nullification by delay. Losers cannot be allowed to drag out teh process forever. There has to be an end point. I say hand count in Duval County and otehr Repub counties to equal what the dems are asking for in Palm. Then the law of averages will play itself out.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:45:18 (EST)
My two cents are: I will also say that as much as I don't like the Dems dragging this out, they are sure playing this a lot better than the repubs. But then again, they do have these blah blah media idiots and town hall opinion wonks backing them up with their spin and half truths. The full story is NOT being told and not being told fairly and in a balanced way. As usual/
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:36:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Let's get this stuff recounted and let the Bush team put coalitions together to "bring the country together" since he certainly has no mandate without the popular vote and Nader certainly tipping the scales for him. I doubt Bush will do anything at all to affect abortion, schools and may even tone way down his tax cuts. He will be a centrist like Clinton only slightly right. Otherwise, Dems win take congress in two years. Let's get on with it.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:32:22 (EST)
My two cents are: I think it will end Fri ,Pete. I can't see it dragging beyond the absentee ballots no matter who wins. If they recount the whole state, naturally, it is going to go a long time. Gore will take himself out of the leadership role in the Democratic party if it goes too far......G'nite.......John�
J
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:29:05 (EST)
My two cents are: I must say, Bush better withdraw that federal case or he will risk backlash. If this recount goes agaisnt him, then he should demand a recount by hand elsewhere. But he should not try to stop the recount.
Pete�
- Sunday, November 12, 2000 at 00:24:02 (EST)
My two cents are: E, that 10/8 split on recount observers might be 'cause the election officials there are Dems. You mentioned earlier that Bush wanted hand counts in Texas, but not Fla. Would you be surprised to learn that Bush has already benefited from a hand recount in Fla. to the tune of +98 votes? When Seminole County, which went Bush by 2 to 1, did its machine recount, they also did a hand count of rejected ballots, with election officials acertaining the w on his behalf in 11, count 'em ELEVEN, states. They empaneled grand juries and involved the FBI. Net result - Hawaii went from Nixon to Kennedy; a net gain of -3 for Tricky Dick.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 23:20:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Why, it's our pro-Arab feral child,'Toine! You can do better than THAT post, surely. What else have you in your little bag of sexist, racist, homophobic misanthropic vitriol? Can't wait to see! Remember your Clearasil, and above all, don't pick--it will leave scars. 'Night.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 23:14:15 (EST)
My two cents are: that's great news if the palestinians kept the liberal jews from shuffling over sticking their schnozes through the post office door on election day.
thank you yassir
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 22:39:34 (EST)
My two cents are: No, Junior doesn't want an honest count. He wants a count that favors him.// Hand counting all of Florida works for me, Pete. Why is your boy so nervous?
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 22:10:42 (EST)
My two cents are: There is definitely something wrong with the voting machines and their ability to tabulate votes when after the election The Weed was ahead by some 1800 votes. This was finally cut back to 327 after the recounts. So what is wrong for the hand count of these ballots by the selected people including republicans unless, after all, the Weed doesn't really trust the people as he must have said 5000 times during the campaign. Doesn't he want to see the election determined with an honest count..........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 22:01:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry Pete, you had your chance at McCain and goofed. Remember? I said I could have voted for him........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:25:17 (EST)
My two cents are: The real question is: Do we have to stick with Al and Dubya? Can't we find someone else? Maybe McCain? Maybe Powell? Good grief.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:20:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, E, when all votes are hand counted in Florida, including the 26,000 in heavily Repub counties, then I might look for soem poi, Until then, all we have is more Dem shenanigans.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:18:47 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry anon, the constitution only allows voting by election day.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:16:15 (EST)
My two cents are: The way I understand it, the 4000 ballots sent to Floridian Jews in Israel do not have to be postmarked Nov. 7. Seems the state dept. warned them not to go to post offices because of the potential for trouble. Therefore, some of these people may be voting as we speak. Wonder who they're voting for. Also, the Supreme Court will never even touch this case because they want nothing to do with influencing an election. the best thing would be for W to concede to the will of the American people and end this nightmare.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:13:30 (EST)
My two cents are: If you do all 500 precincts in Palm Beach County that is 15,000 Gore and 9,500 Weed. Nice< right E...............John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 21:09:18 (EST)
My two cents are: That gives gore only 11 more votes. Unless that happens in a about thirty or thirty-five counties, it's not enough to hand the election to Gore. Looks like Secretary Baker was right all along, and Boils is the p-elect.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:48:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Resurrecting the horrid legacy of Nixon, the notorious sore loser, is quite a stunt. The Dems don't need to steal the election, Pete, only your fratboy does. The Dems are winning the old-fashioned way--counting votes. End of story. Cry in your poi.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:46:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Scratch that last post.......John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:36:43 (EST)
My two cents are: The other ballots for the other guys......John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:35:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Here's the first count, 49 ballots, 30 Gore-- 19 Weed These are ballots the machine couldn't count.........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:34:40 (EST)
My two cents are: It was Wm Henry Harrison, who caught cold and died, Old Tippecanoe, setting the stage for Tyler. The Harrison that the junior wants to emulate is Benjamin Harrison who beat Grover Cleveland in the electoral college but not the popular vote. On the other hand this business with Gore and the football is getting as tired as the rap about Nixon being magnanimous and letting the stuffed boxes go in Cook County. Kennedy still would have won if he lost Illinois, which is probably why Eisenhower forced Nixon to keep his trap shut.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:31:17 (EST)
My two cents are: OK, time to fire the Defensive coaches. Piss poor. Now all I need is for Gore's goons to steal this election. Lovely.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:25:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Was Watching ND clobber BC and had a little set on the news. A black and white set. The Weed came on the little set and looked like death warmed over. I mean, he looked haggard and weary as hell. Not ready to play touch football like Gore. Who is the President who caught a cold during his inaugeration and died 28 days later? If I was the Weed, I'd get to a voodoo priestess like Whatever and get something........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:17:53 (EST)
My two cents are: It's good that Bush wants hand-counting in Texas, but not in Florida. If he can prevent hand counts in Florida, maybe he won't lose. Makes sense. After all, why should a rich fratboy consider anyone's well-being save his own? At the moment, the first ballots being reconsidered in Florida are those with chads having had 1, 2 or 3 corners removed by hole punching. When chads stick to ballots, the machine can't count them, but people can. "Pregnant" chads and "dimpled" chads are not currently under consideration. This process is happening with 10 Republicans and 8 Democrats watching the 3 people from the Election Committee, to insure fairness. Don't know why the Pubbies get two more than Dems, but there you are. Maybe Jeb did a deal.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:08:32 (EST)
My two cents are: I sure hope Pete is right and the supreme court puts and end to this nonsense. Let the honeymoon commence! Like any new president, Bush has a lot to accomplish in the blush of the first 100 days.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 20:02:25 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't quite understand why Bush feels the need to declare himself president-elect before the votes are counted. What's the big rush? He should probably get some rest anyway, at least until the boils heal up. When he doesn't get his rest he tends to get a bit snippy, always lamentable in a president-elect, whose first job is always to heal up the country and make the people that the Republicans have called bad Americans feel like they are actually OK Americans. Almost all his team already know how to do their jobs in a presidential administration, so it's not as if anyone but Bush himself has to adjust to anything.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:59:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Aha, it's 'Toine, back from the wars, he's stacked his rifle and is busy trying to patent the laughing stalk before Gore claims it for his own. 'Toine, Christopher is right, and everybody has a lot of options at his disposal, unless they've painted themselves into the corner where you try to avoid counting votes because some of them might be for the other guy.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:48:53 (EST)
My two cents are: I agree, Anon. In the best interest of the country the botched up ballots are just that, sorry charlie. My interest is purely in the law and how it is decided. Florida Secretary of State declared the ballot legal. I just had questions regarding that decision. // I'm out of here for the night. John, HoHum, and all of you who served in our Armed Forces, I wish you a Happy Veterans Day. Thank You. Hi, YD. :) Out ...
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:45:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, I'm a Democrat and I think there will be more chads glued back in than are pulled out, especially when the Israel vote comes in and the votes from all those black guys who live in Denmark because there's no race prejudice. On the other hand, I tend to agree with election experts in the Bush camp who say that the country can't wait to count votes and should always crown whoever is ahead on Wednesday morning. The supreme cournt will put an end to this counting mania and put timliness back into the equation, thus preserving our ability to make overseas agreements.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:44:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Back when Gore invented the constitution he knew there would be days like these. Back in the day he could have handled it himself by robbing graveyards and making lawyers out of the cadavers the way he taught them to at the medical school he founded from the nest egg he made on vaudville hypnotizing chickens. But things aren't as simple these days. He needs to bring in a horse mounted calvary of high powered lawyers. Real lawyers -- the ones who didn't flunk out of lawyer school. Like Christopher said Gore has lots of options at his disposal. He can always ask his boss to let him borrow the army troops. Gore will lead them into battle himself. It's been a while, but he can still swing a pretty mean army issue camera.
click clock
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:36:51 (EST)
My two cents are: By the way, the wORST trial lawyers are from Harvard.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:30:34 (EST)
My two cents are: By the way, Tribe and Desh lose more appeals than they win. Whatever happens in court, the uS supreme court will be the final arbiter. Checkmate.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:28:45 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, j, i think it is larry tribe. we already have to listen to Dershowitz try to steal the election by proposing some commission. You know they are grasping when Dershowitz says appoint a commission. The overseas count will give Bush about an up to 2500 vote benefit so Gore needs to revers about 2500 Palm counts by hand removing the chads. Democrats. A piece of work.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:27:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush is playing with fire. He doesn't know what he's getting into. There's already one high powered lawyer, and he's from Harvard, who's going to be top gun in the battle to overturn the election. Bush should quit while he's ahead and the troops are safe in their barracks watching the 'Buffs getting pounded.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:26:35 (EST)
My two cents are: I agree E, looking at the actual ballots by hand is not a bad thing, one may win or lose, somthing maybe overturned or not, but the end result is something called truth. Georege W. Bush seems afraid of this concept, this thing called truth. Why isn't Bush asking for a full accounting, demanding accuracy,....greed before truth, dessert before dinner, wwwwaaaaahhhhhh. Where's my bowl of ice cream? wwwwaaaahhhhhh!!!!
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:25:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Buffs behind 32-27 in a snowstorm in Boulder. 4th Quarter just starting. Bush up 331. Communist County count still to come.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:22:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Well said, 19:04:18. But on the other hand there is unchartered territory that needs to be explored. As long as we're there we may as well take advantage of it. Just look at all the lawsuits filed already. Of course Gore made sure he was out of town in Washington, but make no mistake. He's got a handle on the situation. That's what telemarketing and campaign activists are for. Lititigation is the American way. Sounds like president-elect Bush is being unAmerican wanting to get the election over with.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:21:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore has a high powered lawyer professor from Harvard, forget his name, who is going into court to argue the case for keeing the count going. I know of the guy but can't think of his name............John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:20:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Look, I got my one eye here and the otehr eye watching the buffs losing.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:15:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Anonymous, we'd all like to be sitting in front of the big-screen with a cool one, watching the Buffs. But this is a constitutional crises precipitated by Algore's wanting to count all the votes instead of respecting George W. Bush's quite reasonable claim that he is president-elect. Bush has already set the transition in motion in good faith, and it wouldn't be fair to waste all that hard work. Besides, a number of experts, among them an ex-Secretary of State and ex-Bush campaign manager, and a very highly-paid oil executive, have stated that Bush has obviously won the election and doesn't need votes to prove it.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:04:18 (EST)
My two cents are: I wonder how the Buffs are doing.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 19:00:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Anonymous, don't you understand that our overseas alliances may crack if we allow an interminable number of two marchine counts and one hand count? Secretary Baker has a lot of experience in this area, and knows his way around what's fair to the Bush family as well. How would you like to be the one to try to explain to George W. that he really isn't president-elect? No, some things are just too brutal to contemplate. I say give it to the kid with the boils.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:55:51 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm with glint on the butterfly ballot-- people had a chance to figure it out and didn't, so tough shit. On the other hand, why are the Republicans so afraid of the chad-quest? The way I understand it, hairline chads were busting off and clogging the counting machines all over Florida, it was a blizzard of Gore chads going uncounted. This may just be another urban myth, but the only way to find out is to inspect the ballots. Surely the Bush boy can allow that to happen per existing statute without dragging it through the courts.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:53:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, In that photo the arrows matched perfectly. However, I did see a demonstration on a news show where once it was put in the machine the arrow was slightly out of line. But the arrow isnt't the issue I was addressing, it was candidate placement on the ballot and Florida law. Just because that issue has been laid out on the table and the Florida Secretary of State said the ballot is legal. I questioned her position,I would like to know how it meets the legality with Buchanan clearly second in my opinion. We are assuming Gore /Lieberman is second based on the standard way we would read a ballot, going down the list and marking an x or punching the hole to the right of the candidate. In this ballot, you do not read down, but across, and in Buchanan's case you would punch the hole to the left of the candidate's name. BEAUROCRACY! :)
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:53:09 (EST)
My two cents are: The ballot in Massachusetts had the same problem as the one in Florida. The ballots were reviewed by hand, same as in Florida, and held up to the light. Holes that were partially punched were also counted. The candidate I voted for lost due to the hand recount; the election results were overturned.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:50:47 (EST)
My two cents are: What's wrong with reviewing the ballots, Mary, is that Bush fears he will lose when the ballots are reviewed by hand. Therefore, he tries to prevent this process which is perfectly normal in a close election. He's already signed a handcount law into effect in Texas, but suddenly changes his mind? Forget about it. Bush is a loser. Big time.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:46:18 (EST)
My two cents are: "Why is it when they're talking about great American airplanes they always forget the Brewster Buffalo. They had a bunch of Brewster Buffalos on Midway, and every last one of them got shot down.... Anonymous. - Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:08:59 (EST)"
guess that explains it -- they sucked
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:45:39 (EST)
My two cents are: More than 7,000 overseas ballots have yet to be returned to Florida, more than enough to turn the corner for George W. Bush or Al Gore -- although no one knows how many will actually be sent back or where in the world they will come from. To be counted, they must arrive by 5 p.m. Friday. According to state law, overseas ballots that arrive after election night are stored unopened in vaults in Florida's 67 counties. They will remain there, uncounted, until the Friday deadline passes. Each county decides when to count its votes. In Miami-Dade County, 1,699 ballots were mailed to places like Barcelona, Spain, and Managua, and 1,138 came back in time to be counted on election night. That means 561 are still outstanding, but from which countries and how many military voters, no one can say. Miami-Dade elections officials said 617 overseas ballots went to military addresses. One hundred of the 617 went to Virginia, and the remainder went to military or government addresses in 41 other states and territories. A total of 1,082 ballots went to civilians living overseas. And the largest batch among those -- 44 -- was sent to Floridians living in Israel, where an estimated 10,000 Jews with Florida ties are living. Election officials were not sure how many of the ballots from Israel were counted on election night and how many are still out there, or if their senders voted for Gore, as the Democratic Party believes. ``Our votes are in the mail,'' said Beverly Wolff, in an e-mail message from Haifa, Israel. ``Think of us as the cavalry riding to the rescue.'' She said she voted for Gore. Bruce Yudewitz, director of community planning for the Greater Miami Jewish Federation, said he was not aware of any effort from Florida to organize voting from Israel. He said his organization does not endorse political candidates. Other Florida counties where Navy and Air Force bases are located also reported that large numbers of ballots were mailed to military personnel, who Republican Party officials claim are more inclined to vote for Bush. But it was still uncertain just how many ballots are yet to be counted. A Herald survey of 33 counties on Friday showed that 3,975 overseas ballots had not yet arrived in Florida. A Palm Beach Post survey of 52 counties on Thursday showed officials were waiting for 7,429 ballots of 15,230 that were requested. An Associated Press survey of 28 counties found that less than half of the roughly 7,000 ballots mailed overseas had not come back. Okaloosa County Elections Supervisor Pat Hollarn said, ``I expect a sizable number -- at least a couple of hundred -- military votes, and most of those will be Republican.'' Escambia County, where Pensacola naval base is located, still had not received 1,176 ballots sent mostly to military personnel. Hillsborough County was waiting for 518. In Clay County, 195 overseas ballots, mostly military, were locked in a vault. ``I voted for Bush,'' said Army Staff Sgt. Bill Wyman, who said he was in the Middle East and is from Jacksonville. ``My vote is probably somewhere between here and Florida. That's one vote that could make a big difference.'' In descending order after Israel, Miami-Dade sent out 20 ballots to England, 17 to Costa Rica, 16 to Spain, 13 to Canada and 10 to France. Forty-six percent of those requesting ballots in Miami-Dade were Republicans, and 42 percent were Democrats. In Broward County, an elections clerk said one survey showed 1,289 overseas ballots were mailed and 257 had not come back. But a second list showed 1,623 ballots mailed. That second list showed 575 ballots requested by Democrats, of whom 114 were military and 461 were civilian; 596 ballots requested by Republicans, of whom 209 were military and 387 were civilian; and 452 requested by independents, of whom 119 were military and 333 were civilians. Published Saturday, November 11, 2000, in the Miami Herald
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:39:52 (EST)
My two cents are: (Florida Code, Title IX, Ch. 102, section 102.166(4)(a).) According to Florida law, "Such request must be filed with the canvassing board prior to the time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being protested, OR within 72 hours after midnight of the date the election was held, which ever occurs later." (Florida Code, Title IX, Ch. 102, section 102.166(4)(b).)
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:36:03 (EST)
My two cents are: Mary, I posted a link on Wednesday, November 08, 2000 at 18:09:41 for a jpg of an actual photograph of the Palm Beach ballot -- not one of the frequently shows artist conceptions. Take a look and tell me if you still think the holes and arrows don't line up: http://www.GoPBI.com/news/local/430PalmBeachBallot.jpg
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:34:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Austin Texas, November 11, 2000. A rumpled and despondent candidate for president appeared on television looking like he'd had a rough night and probably slept in his clothes. The right side of his face was covered with a bandage and shielded by the camera angle. The left side, especially the cheekbone area, appeared thick and glossy with make-up. Candidate Bush did not stand up to take comments, questions or greet the press staff in the newscast. Rather, he remained slumped in a queen ann wingback chair, head hanging, pale, and rumpled like a hung-over fratboy struggling to make a decent appearance at the ladies auxillary tea party. Two days after the election he appeared as if he had not changed clothes. He has also been conspicuosly absent in the media, sending emmisarys out but not making a statement himself. One wonders, is Bush on a bender? Has this small delay pushed him over the edge? He's challenged the Senior Bush to fistfights before, and senior did beat a hasty retreat Kennybunkport once the delay became clear. And we don't seem to see Jeb and George exactly holding hands right now. Certainly not playing touch football.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:24:38 (EST)
My two cents are: 4. If requesting a recount of electronic voting system ballots, specify manual or electronic recount. If more than one petition for recount is filed and more than one method of counting is requested, a manual recount takes precedence over an electronic recount. And an electronic recount using a corrected program takes precedence over electronic recount using the same program as the original count; http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/recounts.shtml
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:22:58 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the fair thing to do is just toss out the Palm Beach ballots and move on.
E-vil
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:15:39 (EST)
My two cents are: The problem in Massachusetts was the chad -- the piece of paper that is supposed to separate completely from a hole-punch ballot. When it does not, counting machines may not be able to ''read'' the ballot properly. ``You have to review them by hand to see the effect of where somebody tried to put a puncture mark in and were unsuccessful. Apart from the "stupid" voters, what is wrong with reviewing the ballots for this purpose? Not counting and the 19,000 doublepunched tossed ballots and the buchanan votes, there seems to be a precedent in counting machine ballots by hand. What are the republicans afraid of here? If this is overseen by both republican and demcrats, that should resolve questions of fraud. Any question will be resolved with both parties available for objections.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:15:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, then why is Gore/Lieberman given the #5 and the third spot to punch. Also, Why is Buchanan given the #4 and the SECOND spot to punch. Now is Gore third...third spot. Or second and Third hole. These irregularities can not be addressed simply by saying follow the arrow. There is a question of Florida law, and despite the statement this ballot is legal by the Florida Secretary of State, Florida LAW calls for Gore to be second. That should also include the second hole to be punched, in my opinion. I am no lawyer,but I can see lawyers having diverse opinions on this.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:08:15 (EST)
My two cents are: I think it's a good thing that Bush is going to court to stop a hand count process in Florida when he already signed a hand count process into law in Texas. Things ought to be different in Florida, after all. There are more Democrats there. A fratboy might lose.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:06:37 (EST)
My two cents are: Sometimes God visits a plague of boils on a naughty boy who's trying to get away with an election.
Job
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:04:21 (EST)
My two cents are: "Evidently You didn't read the post about the butterfly ballot election result in Mass that was overturned,Pete?.......John�" The ballots that made the difference had mechanical problems. It wassn't the Florida argument where stupid voters are to blame. <> "No glint, you don't see the gore hole below the bush hole, look again, that's the buchannan hole" - ydog. Why are you so interested in Buchannan's hole? It doesn't seem right. What I said was that the name below Bush/Cheney was Gore/Lieberman. Each name pair had an arrow leading to a hole. The only reason someone would pick Buchanan is because they failed to follow instructions, hence voter error. Not a mechanical problem. <> "Why is Buchanan listed as the second candidate on the palm beach ballot? Is this the only ballot in the nation where the Reform Party is listed as second?" - Mary. He wasn't listed second. Bush/Cheney was first, Gore/LIEberman were listed immedately beneath. Why? Aske the Democrats, they designed it. Sounds like they forgot to consider the blubbering moron factor of their electorate.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:02:18 (EST)
My two cents are: It turns out Junior just signed a pro-hand count law in Texas. Bwa hahahahahah! What's Coward Bush so scared of?
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 18:01:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Lee Marvin is buried in Arlington right alongside Joe Louis...........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:56:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Occassionally a person is visited with a plague of boils strictly because of reaction to stress. If Bush is able to convince Gore to concede before the election is over, I'd watch for future bandaid-covered boils. It could get interesting.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:49:03 (EST)
My two cents are: What the hell else do you expect him to do, anonymous? The Governor of Florida, the Governor of Wisconsin, and all his father's friends are telling him that he won,
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:30:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Like the Tuskeegee Airman Luther Smith, GW Bush is just a small guy in stature but a huge man in heart. I'm counting on the scrappy little guy to fight this election all the way to the Supreme Court.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:24:02 (EST)
My two cents are: At my polling place they had a machine where you slide a chad-poker up and down, pointing a metal arrow at the name on the ballot, after inserting it into the machine. The first one I tried didn't work right, you'd push the lever and it wouldn't move, there were worn cogs that didn't line up. I switched booths and the second one worked a little better, but not much. Beside me a woman in my original booth was struggling with the machine, and the attendant helped her, probably knocking out chads for Buchanan and Lyndon LaRouch as well as whoever she wanted to vote for. The good thing about the machine is it drives the chad out clean, actually doesn't even need pre-cut chads but punches right through an unperforated ballot. Bad thing is the machine wears out after a few hundred elections. There are very few black folks in this town, so just about everybody was allowed to vote.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:21:14 (EST)
My two cents are: I sympathize with the junior. Once had one of those boils in the crack of the ass. French doctor called it a "furuncle." Hurt like hell. At least it wasn't out in plain sight, where you had to cover it with a band-aid.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:12:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Why is it when they're talking about great American airplanes they always forget the Brewster Buffalo. They had a bunch of Brewster Buffalos on Midway, and every last one of them got shot down. It was a radial-engined bi-plane that was possibly a little past its prime when the Japanese hit Midway. No, all the glory goes to the P-38, the P-47, and the P-51.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:08:59 (EST)
My two cents are: This election has been worth it, if only because everybody gets to learn what a "chad" is.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:05:40 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't understand why Tom Hanks is jumping on the WWII bandwagon. If you need an actor, why not go for Lee Marvin? Is Lee Marvin still alive? There must be at least one or two actors still around who served in WWII. Robert Mitchum? I know for a fact that Bill Mauldin is still alive, and knew Ernie Pyle. He also had a bit part in "Red Badge of Courage" with Audie Murphy in about 1953, so he counts as an actor. Tom Hanks is just someone who was in a television show about two guys who lived in an all-female apartment building and had to dress up like women.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:04:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Jeb assured me "it's in the bag." What WAS in them bags? Chads from Palm Beach?
Confused Elder Brother w/ Chief of Staph Infection
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 17:00:32 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't understand this. The Governor of Florida said that the state was in my column.
GW Bush
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 16:58:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Time to hand-count all of Florida. Pretty funny that BushWhackers are now the first into court. Federal court, no less!! Ha ha. What happened to all the Pubbie yammering about states' rights? Not when their boy is trying to bully himself into the Presidency, over the bodies of thousands of elderly Hebrews.
E <Say, does the Bush family own the Fed District judges?>
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 16:43:43 (EST)
My two cents are: That Tuskeegee Airman's name was Luther Smith. he flew the P39, P47 and the P51, all great planes. Just a small guy in stature but a huge man in heart. Watch the 6 news this evening and you might see it. Or tune in to C-Span............John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 16:42:11 (EST)
My two cents are: The recount has started. In fact ,is well underway,get ready for Prtesident Gore. The chads are hitting the deck, big-time!!// Watched the groundbreaking ceremony for the WW2 Memorial and it was a tearjerker. Mad as hell though as the audio was lost just as the Tuskeegee Airman was telling how his P51 was shot down. Pissed me off,it was a great story. also the story Tom Hanks told of the Capt. Ernie Pyle wrote about who was killed in Italy. Really sad............John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 16:30:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete is a wise man, and quite the political analyst. Naturally, anyone who was planning to vote for Nader would switch his vote upon hearing that Gore had won Florida. Back in the old days people used to think that a lot of western voters didn't bother to go to the polls if their man lost in the east. Of course, the Nader voters probably read the eyebrow messages better than the unsophisticated votes of the second Carter election.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:53:46 (EST)
My two cents are: I think there's only one thing for Team Bush to do, and that's to fall back on tried and true Republican principles. It's time to call Gore unpatriotic.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:48:02 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't think they're black precincts that have been chosen. Those big strapping bucks can shove the chad out of the hole with no trouble, same for the women. These are obviously precincts full of elderly Jews who have spent their lives counting money and so do not have strong arms like the Negroes. The Gore chads will be falling off the recount table like confetti.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:45:56 (EST)
My two cents are: ANON....do you have the machine in front of you? You can not tell just by looking at the photo of the ballot.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:42:06 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm not worried about re-counting the votes in black areas. Bush is the uniter and has the most Negroes on his team. Looks like Gore just made another tactical blunder.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:41:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Thanks, Pete, I was wondering about other ballots and how they were listed. Here it was Bush, then Gore. I guess in Florida its a random listing, or someone is alphabetically challenged. I would look it up in their election statutes but I can't get on that web page. Traffic is too busy.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:40:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete raises an interesting point. Is it possible to be stupid enough to vote for Bush but not stupid enough to be confused by the ballot?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:39:53 (EST)
My two cents are: The arrow on all ballots points to the right hole. The arrow is easier to guide the voter when the ballot is in the machine. There is no way to miss the hole if you line up the arrow.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:38:49 (EST)
My two cents are: Nice try, the arrow does in fact line up.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:38:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Fox News just said that the four precincts that will be hand counted in Palm County went 9 to 1 to Al Gore. These must be black precincts.
Start the revolution, America.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:37:15 (EST)
My two cents are: AH, but in the machine...the arrow does not line up, because the print was made larger for easy reading, but the arrow was small. I didn't design this ballot, Florida did. But its a misconception to think only illiterate and ignorant, uneducated people were confused. Look at the results.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:36:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Second best losing team in the world.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:33:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, it is now clear that Gore is going to use the well-known statistical economist trick of selecting counties that are favorable to him. He should just pick them out of a hat, the way Bush will.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:33:12 (EST)
My two cents are: 49 million people are pretty stupid then. Along with a majority of states, a vast majority of counties. Compare the actual people who voted for Democrats.
End of Story.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:32:58 (EST)
My two cents are: In my ballot, Buchanan was first, bush second and Gore later in alphabetical order. It certainly did not give more Buchanan votes. People need to get some perspective. Education is becoming even more important in America than ever before. Off to watch teh buffz. Alooha.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:31:34 (EST)
My two cents are: If we actually could guarantee that elections would be stupid free, nobody would be faced with the possibility of voting for George W. Bush.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:31:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Hand counting ballots in only a few, carefully chosen counties is a sure way to bias the results. Even if hand counting is more accurate than machine counting, there is a clear bias introduced because Al Gore chose which counties to hand count. Mr. Gore has selected the state and counties where recounting has the best chance of helping him. This is exactly the same as cleaning other data selectively. Naturally, if this opportunity for selective recounting becomes the norm, the floodgates will open and any candidate who loses a close election would be foolish not to demand a recount. The immediate implication of this is clear. If there is to be recounting by hand, it cannot be selective. There needs to be total hand counting, not just within Florida, but across the U.S. in any state that was close. One candidate cannot be allowed just to choose where he wants the data cleaned.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:29:48 (EST)
My two cents are: Saturday, November 11, 2000 1:45 p.m. There is a well-known trick among statistical economists for biasing your data while looking honest. First, figure out which data points don't agree with your theory. Then zealously clean up the offending data points while leaving the other data alone. The key to maintaining academic dignity is to ensure that you do nothing to the data other than eliminate errors. But while this approach may seem to improve accuracy, it actually leads to biased results. If you only clean the offending data points, then you will disproportionately keep erroneous data that agrees with your prior views. This leads many scholars to believe that data that is partially cleaned at the discretion of a researcher is worse than bad data. This lesson from the ivory tower has a clear implication for the current mess in Florida. Hand counting ballots in only a few, carefully chosen counties is a sure way to bias the results. Even if hand counting is more accurate than machine counting, there is a clear bias introduced because Al Gore chose which counties to hand count. Mr. Gore has selected the state and counties where recounting has the best chance of helping him. This is exactly the same as cleaning other data selectively. Naturally, if this opportunity for selective recounting becomes the norm, the floodgates will open and any candidate who loses a close election would be foolish not to demand a recount. The immediate implication of this is clear. If there is to be recounting by hand, it cannot be selective. There needs to be total hand counting, not just within Florida, but across the U.S. in any state that was close. One candidate cannot be allowed just to choose where he wants the data cleaned. If this is prohibitively expensive, or time consuming, then it is better to leave the process unchanged than to introduce the selective recounting bias. More generally, one of the principle lessons of macroeconomics is that rules generally work better than discretion. This is as true in elections as any place else. Giving candidates influence over how election results are processed does not help democracy to accurately reflect the will of the people. Judicial discretion is not much better, as judges will be responding to cases selectively filed by candidates. Furthermore, judges determining elections will exalt the judiciary to a king-making role it should not have. While it certainly may be appropriate to ban butterfly ballots for all of eternity, and while reform of balloting procedures seems like a must, it is also clearly wrong to selectively recount certain areas. Mr. Glaeser is a professor of economics at Harvard University and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution. Copyright � 2000 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
The truth
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:28:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Since when did this crap about counting ballots accurately have anything to do with who should be declared the ultimate winner?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:28:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Yes, and Bush is labeled no 3, Buchanan 4 and Gor 5. Nothing inconsistent. When it is in the actual punch machine, it is very easy to see the arrow pointing to the right hole to punch. We cannot guarantee that elections will be stupid free, but it is interesting there are more Democrats claiming to be stupid.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:27:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Why, you make it sound so confusing, Mary. How E-vil!
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:26:31 (EST)
My two cents are: I think he meant to include the two Negroes all along. Bush is the Reach Across the Aisle president.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:25:54 (EST)
My two cents are: WASHINGTON TIMES Florida case-law bars state courts from ordering a new election on grounds a ballot was confusing, and federal election law could sidetrack any attempt to change that. The Constitution assumes a voter's "ability to read and his intelligence to indicate his choice with the degree of care commensurate with the solemnity of the occasion," says a 1974 ruling by a District Court of Appeals. That ruling in a similar case of ballot confusion stands today as the precedent in such cases. Even if state courts reinterpreted the law and ordered a new election, that result would seem to conflict with federal statutes. Federal law (3 USC Sect. 1) says electors "shall be appointed, in each state, on the Tuesday next after the first Monday in November." On Dec. 2, 1997, in the Louisiana case of Foster vs. Love, the Supreme Court ruled that all federal elections must be held on that one national Election Day. "You would think there would be a fairly strong argument under Foster vs. Love that you can't hold part of the presidential election any other day. That would suggest that you can't have another election," said a Washington lawyer with a Supreme Court practice who asked not to be identified. Those legal speed-bumps have not slowed down three West Palm Beach Democrats who are trying, with official help from Vice President Al Gore's campaign, to deliver a come-from-behind state victory that would put him in the White House. "Votes unintentionally cast for [Reform Party candidate Pat] Buchanan in Palm Beach County will make a decisive difference in the outcome of the . . . election," claimed the new complaint that suggests Palm Beach County's ballot layout may have affected up to 22,527 votes, including 3,407 for Mr. Buchanan, who traditionally loses in precincts with large Jewish populations. Lawyers for the Gore campaign and Democratic National Committee said yesterday that they would help in the lawsuit, which was filed Wednesday. "Today, I am announcing that we will be working with voters from Florida to support a legal action to demand some redress for the disenfranchisement of more than 20,000 voters in Palm Beach County," said Gore campaign chairman William Daley upon confirming that the campaign entered the case. "We believe that with so much at stake, steps should be taken to make sure that the people's choice becomes the president." Lawyers not involved in the case were skeptical about any chance the legal team would succeed in getting a new election. "Most of those state statutes, even if violated, are not grounds for a new election," said Joseph J. Portuondo of Coconut Grove, a longtime Florida election lawyer who once worked on Republican causes. "To sit by and let an election happen, then come in and complain of a technical violation � you get an unfair second bite at the apple," Mr. Portuondo said. "The bottom line in Florida is that courts will never throw out an election unless there is an absolute, clear showing that the election doesn't reflect the will of the people." That is exactly the claim of the lawsuit which yesterday was consolidated with a claim by Palm Beach voter Kenneth Horowitz, owner of the Miami Fusion soccer team, that poll workers gave voters only five minutes to cast ballots. The voters' claim centers on use of so-called "butterfly ballots," small books whose pages turn as voters record choices on a punch card. Butterfly ballots have long been used without challenge, but the lawsuit charges no Florida county ever before listed presidential candidates on facing pages rather than in a column on one page. County Supervisor of Elections Theresa LePore, herself a Democrat, said a second page was needed to accommodate some candidates' names because she had them printed in larger type to help the many elderly voters among whom Mr. Gore is popular. "No good deed ever goes unpunished," said Mr. Portuondo, who suggested the Palm Beach lawsuit might more properly have been filed in the state capital of Tallahassee, naming Secretary of State Katherine Harris so that any remedy could be enforced against state officials. But it was the very elderly voters for whom large type was ordered who were most confused, said one of their lawyers, Howard Rudolph. "They are being told it's sour grapes among the 'Condo Commandos.' We're saying it's definitely not sour grapes. They knew who they wanted to vote for and know their votes would have tipped the balance," Mr. Rudolph said in an interview yesterday. Republican lawyer Reeve Bright agreed the 19,120 ballots disqualified because more than one candidate was punched was an extraordinary number but said that does not taint the election. "Unless they can show fraud or extreme irregularity, I don't think you can have an election thrown out," said Jim Smith, a Republican and a former secretary of state, the office which administers all Florida elections. Mr. Rudolph conceded no political party or candidate objected to the layout after reviewing sample ballots before the election but said the effect was not obvious until it was in the voting machine. He discounted prior decisions that seemed to undermine his law firm's position. The petition filed by two of his partners cited no prior decisions supporting the position of the plaintiffs. "Plaintiffs request that the court declare [the ballot illegal], declare that said ballot is deceptive, confusing and/or misleading, declare the election results for the public office of president and vice-president to be null and void, and direct that a new general election . . . be held in Palm Beach County, Florida," the lawsuit said. When asked why he expects courts to settle the issues any differently from the 1974 precedent, Mr. Rudolph turned the topic to fairness and "a chance for everybody to have their vote." However, he said he thought voter testimony could prove that a new vote would change the outcome. That 1974 St. Petersburg case raised identical issues of confusion because of name placement on a long ballot. A Pinellas County circuit judge ordered a new election in five races, but that decision was bluntly overturned by the 2nd District Court of Appeal. Even if a plaintiff showed a result would have differed but for ballot irregularities, "mere confusion does not amount to an impediment to the voters' free choice if reasonable time and study will sort it out," the court said. While a protest before an election might be considered, it's too late to complain after the election, the judgment said. The state Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal and the case-law remains unchanged. The state high court also refused to hear an appeal of a similar decision in a case involving widespread fraud on absentee ballots in Miami's 1998 mayoral election. In that case, too, a state appeals court let the election stand but threw out every absentee ballot, which had the effect of altering the outcome without a new vote. With specific exceptions, mostly involving racial discrimination, federal courts reject most requests for new elections because state courts have power to do so. Other plaintiffs yesterday filed and withdrew an attempt to have a federal court review Florida's election. When federal judges have heard cases, the original vote generally prevailed. The U.S. Supreme Court consistently refuses to intervene. In an Alabama case over a 1986 Democratic gubernatorial primary, Justice Lewis Powell refused to clear the way for a new vote, saying "it is no doubt true that . . . the applicant here will suffer irreparable injury. This fact alone is not sufficient to justify a stay."
duh
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:25:21 (EST)
My two cents are: CORRECTION : Gore is #5 and the third hole to punch.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:24:42 (EST)
My two cents are: EBay offering missing absentee ballots for sale. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=495269341
better hurry Dems
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:24:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Did he really announce a cabinet? Let me guess-- I bet he was forced to put the two Negroes on it because of this undecided election technicality, and he has to curry favor with the black folks who are acting uppity.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:23:32 (EST)
My two cents are: So far all this recount nonsense has accomplished is Gore picking up about 1500 votes, out of the prior 1800 vote lead Bush had in Florida. If this is allowed to go unchecked, a very real possibility exists that Gore might actually win the state and, therefore, the presidency. It's time for this frivolity to end.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:23:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Actually, looking at the ballot ...the first is Bush listed as #3....then, being a butterfly ballot.....you look to the right....the second is Buchanan, listed as #4 and the second hole to punch. Back to left....Gore is #3 and the third hole to punch. And so on. // Also, in most states the r> My two cents are: Actually, looking at the ballot ...the first is Bush listed as #3....then, being a butterfly ballot.....you look to the right....the second is Buchanan, listed as #4 and the second hole to punch. Back to left....Gore is #3 and the third hole to punch. And so on. // Also, in most states the statutes have the party that received the most votes the last gubernatorial election as first on the ballot, and the second would be the democratic party. They are usually listed according to votes received.
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:22:50 (EST)
My two cents are: No, I misread the liberal media onslaught in the final few days, the dirty tricks on Bush and the fear tactics of Algore. Other than that, I also blame the media for calling the election way too soon which they knew would favor Gore in the West and other states by making Nader voters switch. Democrats are a real piece of work. This is proven to me every single day in America. G'day.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:22:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Leave it to the E-vil lying DemocRATS to ignore the dibs rule. Thank goodness people like Rove and Baker are around to point out that Gore is just trying to stretch this out endlessly by insisting that the votes be counted.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:20:25 (EST)
My two cents are: I agree, Anonymous. I understand that the guy who's first to announce a cabinet and a transition team trumps the guy who's selfishly looking at election returns.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:19:34 (EST)
My two cents are: The dems outsmarted themselves Mary. They usually put candidates in alphabetical order, but in this case, that would put Buchanan first. So, instead, the Democrats designed a ballot which would be true to some degree by putting the two MAJOR candidates on the left in alphabetical order, then the nutso ones on the right and otherwise below Gore. In the end, it bit them in the butt.

- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:18:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Wasn't it our own sage, Pete, who predicted a minimum 5% win for Bush along with a huge electoral vote edge? What went wrong? Did Pete misread the autumn moon?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:17:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Anonymous of 15:12:03, in your sarcasm you fail to remember that Bush got dibs on being the winner.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:17:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Why is Buchanan listed as the second candidate on the palm beach ballot? Is this the only ballot in the nation where the Reform Party is listed as second?
Mary
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:15:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Where the hell did Bush's massive lead go, anyway? Rove promised he'd win it in a walk. This suggests serious and widespread vote tampering, or a conspiracy of the liberal pollsters.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:13:27 (EST)
My two cents are: I think we all agree that the winner should concede to relieve us from the numbing agony of it all. The problem is, which winner? Also, who is the winner? Should the possible eventual winner make the first move? How about the one who looks like the winner this afternoon? Should there perhaps be dual concessions? For the good of the American people of course.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:12:03 (EST)
My two cents are: JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) - About 26,000 ballots with more than one presidential candidate or no candidate marked were disqualified in Duval County and never counted, election officials said Saturday. Duval County is as solidly Republican as Palm Beach County is Democratic. Texas Gov. George W. Bush carried Duval County by more than 44,000 votes. Officials said there was no way to know how the nullified ballots affected the race between Bush and Vice President Al Gore. In Tuesday's vote, 21,942 ballots were nullified when voters punched their ballots for two candidates for president. An additional 4,967 did not vote for president or did not punch the ballot hard enough for their vote to be registered, said Susan Tucker Johnson, a spokeswoman for Duval County Supervisor of Elections John Stafford. The disqualified ballots represent about 9 percent of the 291,626 cast Tuesday. The ballot Duval County used was of a different design than the disputed ``butterfly'' ballot used in Palm Beach County. In Duval County, 10 presidential candidates and one write-in candidate were listed on two pages. At the bottom of the first page, in larger, bolder type, voters were instructed to turn the page for more choices in the presidential race. Voters, Johnson said, probably picked one candidate on the first page and then voted for another presidential candidate on the second page.
whats good for the goose is good for the gander
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:11:16 (EST)
My two cents are: If Bush hadn't ridden Gore so hard about inventing the internet, maybe these two guys could get along a little better and come to an amicable decision. On the other hand, it was necessary to explore the issue and hammer it home again and again, along with the one about Love Story. The voter deserves to know whether a candidate might have been overenthusiastic about describing his record.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:11:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Saw Leno last night, and it looks like Bush is going to go down as the Boozehound President and Gore as the Internet Inventor President.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:07:32 (EST)
My two cents are: MIAMI (Reuters) - Miami police Friday found a locked ballot box from the disputed Florida election at a downtown hotel, a police officer said Saturday. Police Lt. Diego Ochoa was speaking at a town hall meeting called by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) to hear testimony of alleged irregularities in the election. Florida"s 25 electoral votes hold the key to Tuesday"s election as neither candidate can reach the 270 votes required to win the keys to the White House without them. A recount was ordered when the state race became too close to call. Ochoa, a 26-year veteran of the police department, said he came forward with the consent of his commanding officer and arrangements were now under way for election officials to pick up the box. The ballot box was labeled "Number 541." It was locked and was sealed by police with evidence paper. "At the moment we don"t know exactly what"s in the box," the officer said. He said: "We called the election departments yesterday (Friday/Veteran"s Day) to tell them. As it was a holiday no one answered. That"s what I understand." It was not clear how the box arrived at the hotel and Ochoa did not say if there would be a criminal investigation. There were no further details
Oh Brother!!
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:07:20 (EST)
My two cents are: How can we be sure who got the popular vote if we don't count the votes?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:06:00 (EST)
My two cents are: If Bush would go down as the Sympathy President, Gore would go down as the Mara Liasson's Eyebrows President.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:04:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Volusia county was recounted twice already. If they recount Republican counties, Bush will gain more too. This is never ending. Bush ought to concede to the guy who gets the popular vote because of all this confusion.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:03:42 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm worried about foreign governments figuring that Gore would concede a point, sign a treaty, and then phone in an hour or so later and retract the concession. How can we elect a man who might do that, even if he does win? This sort of now-it's-on-now-it's-off attitude, based solely on the numbers of votes being counted in an election, is certain to discomfit our friends and allies overseas.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:03:14 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/elections/palmbeachballot.htm
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 15:02:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, I hope it turns out that Bush was elected. Seeing the poor guy go through this Hell sears the soul. Gore should concede so Bush can be the Sympathy President.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:55:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Volusia county is the one thats going to tip it over.//No glint, you don't see the gore hole below the bush hole, look again, that's the buchannan hole.
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:53:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Why couldn't the Democrats get a fighting ex-Secretary of State like Baker? This weak sister Christopher says he doesn't care to engage in the escalation of rhetoric. The man is all necktie and no gonads.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:52:45 (EST)
My two cents are: In an election this close, it is probably a good idea to not claim to be president-elect until all the votes are counted. It could prove embarassing.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:47:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Florida hand recount folks already selected prior to election, in the event that a recount become necessary. Both Democrats and Republicans free to observe. Of course, all this would make it tough for the United States to get other countries to sign treaties.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:45:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Mass election overturned not because the ballot hadn't been reviewed, but because the machines couldn't count votes where the punch hadn't completely separated the chad from the ballot. Recount in chosen counties is per Florida law, evidently, and by no stretch of the imagination an unreasonable procedure.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:43:24 (EST)
My two cents are: 14:16:44 anon, you miss the point that registration does not have to be with the reform party. Buchanan got more votes in the 96 primary so there are people living there who would vote for him. Also, Republicans voted for Buchanan just as Democrats voted for Nader. But I can see how it is probably making people crazy down there who are too confused to remember how they voted to think that they might have voted for the Nazi Buchanan instead of the Liberator Lieberman (even though the socialsits are arguably the true new Nazis)> Good day!
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:39:24 (EST)
My two cents are: No, and I don't need to John, because in this case, the ballot was reviewed, approved and published. People were given fair notice and also could turn it in if they thought they voted for the wrong person. You can't do that after you leave when an election is so close. Vut I will say, I do not like the idea that teh repubs are trying to halt the recount in the areas where they are being done only because it is a legal challenge that is not going to prevail. It also makes you look like you are trying to stop the process even if they are right about the "bigger reasons" like recounts everywhere. In the end, what SHOULD happen is recount the few that ahve been done, repubs recount the few they want, wait for the absentees and when it is all said and done, whoever is ahead wins. No further appeals and cases. Just my opinion of course.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:35:48 (EST)
My two cents are: Evidently You didn't read the post about the butterfly ballot election result in Mass that was overturned,Pete?.......John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:26:35 (EST)
My two cents are: GovSpot.com (www.govspot.com), a nonpartisan government information portal, has shed additional light on the Palm Beach ballot situation. According to GovSpot.com analysis of detailed precinct-level voting and party registration information provided by the Palm Beach County Election Web site before the recount, the 10 Palm Beach County precincts where Pat Buchanan received the most votes (345) had only five voters registered with the Reform Party
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:16:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Bernalillo County Clerk Judy Woodward has said her staff misprogramd election software and failed to catch the error when the software was tested before Tuesday's general election. The result was that about three dozen election workers began early on Thursday running the questionable ballots through reprogrammed machines and counting some by hand.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 14:10:57 (EST)
My two cents are: The real problem for the Democrats by insisiting on a manual recount is it will open the door for manual recounts in all counties. Bush took most counties. Recounting all counties will not only take a long long time, but also favors Bush. So, Baker's point is why drag this out when the realities are it only invites bias and error and human manipulation depending on which county you are in. No doubt that in Palm with all Dems running the show, Al will advance. The same can and likely would happen once and if Al is ahead by other Republican counties doing the same sort of "interpretation." This can go on forever. That is why Baker is saying it si time to move on with counting the remaining absentees and whoever wins, so be it.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 13:58:18 (EST)
My two cents are: BOSTON (Reuters) - The type of ballot at the center of the presidential election firestorm in Florida -- the so-called butterfly ballot -- was banned in Massachusetts after a congressional primary recount in 1996. Circumstances of the butterfly ballot complaints in Massachusetts were different from those that engulf the presidential vote in Florida, where George W. Bush leads Vice President Gore by a razor-thin margin with overseas absentee ballots yet to be tallied and more recounts expected. Four years ago, Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court justices recounted by hand disputed ballots from a Democratic congressional primary, reversing the outcome and giving William Delahunt the victory by 110 votes. Delahunt went on to win the general election that year and won a third term to the House of Representatives on Tuesday. The problem in Massachusetts was the chad -- the piece of paper that is supposed to separate completely from a hole-punch ballot. When it does not, counting machines may not be able to ''read'' the ballot properly. ``You have to review them by hand to see the effect of where somebody tried to put a puncture mark in and were unsuccessful,'' said Massachusetts Secretary of State William Galvin. ``This is exactly what we had with the Delahunt case four years ago. That's why I outlawed and decertified this system,'' Galvin said. In Florida, the problem with the butterfly is more complex and, to date, mainly has to do with ballot design and voter error. Hundreds of voters in Palm Beach County have protested what they said was a confusing ballot layout that prompted them to cast votes by mistake for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan rather than their preferred candidate, Gore. Some 19,000 Palm Beach ballots were disqualified because voters mistakenly punched their ballot sheet twice, effectively casting votes for two candidates. With Gore and Bush only a few hundred votes apart in Florida, the disputed Palm Beach vote could be crucial to the outcome of the election in which almost 100 million people voted nationally. In addition, there have been reports that huge numbers of other ballots statewide did not register a vote for president, possibly because machines could not read them. ``I know from my own experience that there are literally tens of thousands of ballots down there that (have) puncture marks that this machine ... will not count,'' Galvin said.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 13:56:27 (EST)
My two cents are: In my opinion, accurately counting the votes in Florida would be bad for the country. Gore should concede now, rather than dragging this out in an endless series of two machine counts and a hand count in selected counties as per Florida law.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 13:18:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint's point about the impossibility of cementing a treaty or other international agreement after you've taken back a concession phone call is a good one, and probably reason enough to not count the Florida votes correctly. On the other hand, maybe he could make Bush his Secretary of State and make the foreign nations feel more comfortable. A coalition government is worth considering, employing the strengths and skills of both candidates..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:39:59 (EST)
My two cents are: I think they should both give up and appoint Neil. The poor guy never even got his own state.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:29:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Why doesn't Poppy come in and discipline the boy?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:27:25 (EST)
My two cents are: "Just saw Baker explaining the error prone manual count, his list was longer than mine." Gee, if ex-Secretary ex campaign manager Baker says it would be wrong to count the votes, I guess an injunction is OK.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:26:12 (EST)
My two cents are: I think Jimmy Carter should come in and arbitrate this, the way he does in those banana republics and Haiti. Or maybe the United Nations can help out. I understand that Russia has already offered to counsel the contending parties.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:23:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Pretty thin ice, Glint. Hey Slug, how you been?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:20:21 (EST)
My two cents are: How about the fact it is the republicans who are always crying about States Rights but are seeking to end run the state rights in Fla by going to the Federal Govt to stop the State of Fla from addressing the recount of these votes manually which is legal under there law. This should be thrown out and the recount allowed to go forward.....John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:17:58 (EST)
My two cents are: How about the fact it is the republicans who are always crying about States Rights but are seeking to end run the state rights in Fla by going to the Federal Govt to stop the State of Fla from addressing the recount of these votes manually which is legal under there law. This should be thrown and the recount allowed to go forward.....John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 12:17:38 (EST)
My two cents are: I understand, John. But they've already had two counts without asking. Just saw Baker explaining the error prone manual count, his list was longer than mine. The main point seemed to be a lack of standard applied to the action of "interpreting the intent of the voter" for certain ballots. The very idea seems to reek with bias, whether it be intentional or unintentional.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:53:29 (EST)
My two cents are: BUT,Curt, it is legal in Fla to ask for a manual recount so it must have been proved in the past that a machine count isn't foolproof and a hand count discovers errors. So it looks as though the Weed's team is trying to circumvent Fla law by stopping this action thru a vote from a favorable court. The 3rd District which is made up of two republicans and 1 democrat. Hah!!........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:49:13 (EST)
My two cents are: The problem with the manual count is it is manual labor intensive at a high level. Therefore the chances of human error greatly increase. Machines are more reliable. Also, when taken out of the deck and handled cards have a tendancy to become damaged due to getting beng, frayed, dog-eared, or smeared with donut glaze. The bottom line is manual recounts are less reliable because of the higher error rate and damage that could make future machine counts less reliable..
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:26:54 (EST)
My two cents are: John, I did see a blurb about Arlan the other day but was doing some other activity at the time and didn't really pay attention. One way to match up the electoral votes with the popular vote would be to cast them the way they do it in Nebraska. The winner of the statewide vote gets the two electoral votes represented by the state's senators. Then the remaining votes are cast according to who won in each congressinal district. I'm not yet convinced that way would be best but it would be interesting to see its merits debated.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:16:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Clinton is going to Vietnam to check out the girls there. he will pleasantly surprised. :-)
Slug
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:13:23 (EST)
My two cents are: what, Bush changeovers are not news?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:08:42 (EST)
My two cents are: What changeover?
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:07:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Fox News reported that in the middle of the night. They go berserk every time something turns up roses for a retchie. The most biased network in TV land.........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:05:45 (EST)
My two cents are: Let's see.... I see Bush/Cheney, an arrow, and a hole. Below it I see Gore/LIEberman, an arrow, and a hole. I just punched the hole next to the top arrow. Next question, please?
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:05:05 (EST)
My two cents are: My fingers aren't accurate hitting the keys. Only when I'm talking about good things. Like the changeover in Fla from minus to plus for Gore........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:02:46 (EST)
My two cents are: Foxx News just reported George Bush has taken the lead in New Mexico by 17 votes.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:02:10 (EST)
My two cents are: "There will be a democrat and a republican observing each ballot as it is recounted" - John. But who's watching all the rest of the balltots, hmmm? :-)
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:00:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, perhaps doing this will help you learn to think in new ways.
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:00:48 (EST)
My two cents are: Glint, I'm going to ask you to be objective. Go look at a copy of the palm beach ballot. Then put your right hand on it like you were going to punch a hole. What do you see? Aha, the right side of the ballot is completely obscured and all you see is bush with a dot and gore with a dot, the gore dot being buchannans.
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:59:40 (EST)
My two cents are: How about a comment about Specter Curt. You have given olenty about Hillary........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:58:56 (EST)
My two cents are: What did she do when Arlen Specter Rep. PA called for a change in the electoral College tha day after the election........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:57:02 (EST)
My two cents are: You guys are getting pretty edgy about this glint? why so scared, all we want is the truth, does that scare you? You need to learn to think in new ways.
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:56:03 (EST)
My two cents are: NEWS FLASH!! When Hillary Clinton's notion of reforming the electoral college was brought up, Mara Liasson rolled her eyes! What can this mean?
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:55:26 (EST)
My two cents are: Today they've put Mara Liasson to the camera's right so we view the left side of her face. This is her good side actually, plus her hair covers up those heaving eyebrows.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:53:03 (EST)
My two cents are: In a poll just released at CNN the majority of people polled are willing to see this recount go on to a conclusion so the republicans are the ones who are going to have egg on their faces by stopping this recount thru the courts...........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:52:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Junior's running scared. He knows who really won. He knows what the right thing is to do, but he can't bring himself to do it. Guilt=boil.
boiled in oil
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:51:37 (EST)
My two cents are: There will be a democrat and a republican observing each ballot as it is recounted. Are you afraid the republican can be bribed to not see any irregularities?.....John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:49:28 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't know, trying to block a legitimate recounts isn't much different from trying to bloc a legitimate initial count.
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:48:30 (EST)
My two cents are: How about Gore's flip-flop on Wednesday morning? How does that make him look to the world? In negotiations would he roll over prematurely just so he can go to bed? Would he flip-flop on a treaty obligation. He needs to pack it in -- he's lost Florida so it's time to move on.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:48:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore, meanwhile is romping happily with his family playing football. Who's the master!!!
ydog
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:46:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Guilt? Guilt for what? Can't blame him for wanting to reduce the possibility for providing an opportunity of fraud. Just a few ballots here and there would do it. Who would notice?
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:44:28 (EST)
My two cents are: What's really slimy about Junior and his band of reptiles is that they're all Daddy's dinosaurs. Not only does Junior not have an original idea in his head, he doesn't even have a staff of his own. If he had balls, he'd withdraw. He doesn't, however. His lizards will keep whining about "no lawyers!" while sending their own lawyers to try to prevent even a hand count, to protect their miserable "margin." No honor. No shame. Bush Lite.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:43:20 (EST)
My two cents are: I suppose Baker will go before a Federal Judge in the State of Texas to get this injunction. No Judge in Fla with the least amount of self respect would and should give in to this transparent attempt. Its obvious they know the election was flawed and are now seeking the courts help to to install them in power. Probably some Judge they will promise a Higher job to ....John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:41:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Don't know what the rationale for blocking the count is, but I know the reason--to prevent votes for Gore being counted. Tough luck. A congressional election in MA was hand-counted a while back because of irregularities, just as in FLA. The case went to court. The election was overturned.
E
- Saturd
My two cents are: That boil shows a certain consciousness of guilt. Junior knows he got licked, well and truly. We feel his pain. Later.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:36:07 (EST)
My two cents are: I guess it should specified that I mean "repeated" handling by human hands. Of course each card had to be handled by human hands when the ballot was cast.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:32:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Republicans will just have to abide by the State of Florida election laws.
No matter how much it hurts
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:30:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:29:08 (EST)
My two cents are: I haven't heard their rationale for blocking the count. However, those cards are fairly fragile and are not designed to be handled by human hands. They can be damaged by hand handling and are meant to be handled by dropping them, not one a time, into card reader hoppers. Besides, after the hand count certainly they would need to have another machine count to make sure the cards weren't damaged or modified. May as well recount the entire state by hand.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:26:34 (EST)
My two cents are: They mean to try to block the hand count, by going to court. Typical liar hypocrite retchie behavior--it's fine for them to do whatever they want, but not for the rest of us. The hell with them and the weakling horse they rode in on. Now everybody knows who won the election and who won in Florida--except for Junior and his Al Haig team of Reptiles. Tough luck, Junior. Better pop that boil.
E
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 10:05:24 (EST)
My two cents are: It sure is strange the when Arlen Specter was the first Senator to call for a change in the electoral college after the election not a word was said on here after I posted that fact the other day. Is that because he happens to be a bigtime republican Senator from Pa or is it because Hillary just happens to be a democrat from NY. In any event, Specter's was the first voice raised against the electoral college system after this election,not Hillary Clintons.Give her a break, as some wag pleaded fot Wimpy Bush the other day.........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 09:14:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Some pundits have pondered whether Hillary's pronouncements (declaration of war?) against the electoral college, and in support of its abolishment, is a passive declaration that she intends to run for president in 2004. Perhaps she views the electoral college as a stumbling block on her way to the White House? I'm not against her running for president, after all, a second Clinton impeachment would be icing on the cake.
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 08:49:06 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 08:37:38 (EST)
My two cents are: As much as Hillery would like to sound like she has one clue about anything, if she ever read the Constitution, she would know that it guarantees to the states a REPUBLICAN from of government, not a DEMOCRATIC one. The efforts to shange and rewrite our enduring social compact by these liberals is just simply sick. Change the rules to save her legacy and the legacy of her "husband." Ridiculous.
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 04:04:29 (EST)
My two cents are: ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (Reuters) - In a dramatic turnabout, a recount has pushed Republican George W. Bush into a 17-vote lead over Vice President Al Gore in New Mexico, but there are still uncounted votes to be tallied, officials said on Friday. Before the recount of 67,000 votes from Bernalillo County, which includes Albuquerque and its suburbs, Bush had trailed Gore by 10,000 votes and television networks had projected Gore to be the winner of New Mexico's five electoral votes. Officials said there were still as many as 189 ``emergency'' ballots still to be counted, but that would not concluded until Thursday. Emergency ballots were cast by voters who originally got an absentee or early vote ballot to send in by mail, but then decided to vote on election day with ordinary ballots. The emergency votes would not be counted until officials were certain the voters had not sent in their original ballots, too. Unofficial results showed Bush leading Gore 285,764 to 285,747 when the recount was concluded in Bernalillo County, the state's largest. The recount included early and absentee votes missed in the original count on Tuesday night because of a computer glitch that did not detect straight-party votes. New Mexico's five electoral votes were not enough to decide the race between Gore and Bush. But they could become important if recounts spread to other states besides Florida, whose 25 electoral votes will decide the presidency.
Boooschhhh!!!
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 03:59:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Associated Press Writer Friday, Nov. 10, 2000; 9:39 p.m. EST WASHINGTON �� Faced with a cliffhanger election, the Democratic Party directed a telemarketing firm on Election Night to begin calling thousands of voters in Palm Beach, Fla., to raise questions about a disputed ballot and urge them to contact local election officials. The Democratic National Committee paid Texas-based TeleQuest to make the calls Tuesday night � while polls were still open � alerting voters in the heavily Democratic enclave in Florida of possible confusion with the ballots they cast. "Some voters have encountered a problem today with punch card ballots in Palm Beach County," the script for the call said. "These voters have said that they believe that they accidentally punched the wrong hole for the incorrect candidate." "If you have already voted and think you may have punched the wrong hole for the incorrect candidate, you should return to the polls and request that the election officials write down your name so that this problem can be fixed," the script said. The firm took the names and numbers of voters who said they may have cast an errant ballot, providing the Democratic Party a list of about 2,400 voters in the county who thought they may have misvoted. If voters were about to go to the polls, the script called for the caller to instruct them to "be sure to punch Number 5 for Gore-Lieberman" and "do NOT punch any other number as you might end up voting for someone else by mistake." The maneuver indicates that long before Americans awoke to the reality of the Florida ballot dispute, Democrats were already mobilizing voters there. The concern has focused on Palm Beach, where 19,000 ballots were disqualified and hundreds of voters have said they mistakenly voted for Patrick Buchanan while trying to vote for Gore. Within hours of the phone campaign, hundreds of Democratic voters had called election officials in Palm Beach to complain they may have been confused by the ballot and voted for the wrong candidate. Some Palm Beach County voters have filed lawsuits seeking a new vote. Nelson and other political and legal experts said the calls were perfectly legal but could have contributed to what appeared to most Americans to be a spontaneous explosion of concern in Florida the morning after the election. "In terms of people getting riled up, it would be a tactic that might energize voters who might otherwise not have realized they may have mistakenly voted for the wrong candidate." "They knew they ... lost, and now they want to win on an assumption," one Republican said, speaking outside the government center in West Palm Beach. Wade Scott, an account manager with TeleQuest, said Democratic Party officials contacted his company shortly before 6 p.m. EST Tuesday to make the calls. With only an hour to go before Florida polls closed, his company mobilized all of its telemarketers to make some 5,000 calls in less than 45 minutes, Scott said. "It was a very short burst of calling for our industry," Scott said. He said only about 100 of the voters in Palm Beach it contacted hadn't voted, and about 2,400 felt they may have made a mistake on the ballot. � Copyright 2000 The Associated Press
Typical Democrat BS
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 01:41:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Ain't that the truth!
Pete�
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 01:31:52 (EST)
My two cents are: Yep, see you tomorrow Curt,didn't think this time a week ago we still would be talking about this damn election. G'nite..........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 01:16:56 (EST)
My two cents are: There were some rumblings on Fox News tonight that Bush campaign may go to court to block recount in Florida. I don't know if they meant the hand count scheduled to begin tomorrow or anticipated follow-up repeat counts they're expecting the Gore campaign to request once the third count has been completed. Maybe just a trial balloon. <> O.K. going to bed John. Goodnight, buddy.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 01:06:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like you are chewing on some raw meat.
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:50:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:46:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush 41 Gore 51
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:40:57 (EST)
My two cents are: Go to bed Curt, its past your bedtime.........John�
J
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:38:57 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey John, what were the latest Zogby numbers today?
Glint
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:22:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:17:55 (EST)
My two cents are: FLASH: Spoiled ballots attributed to Democratic Dyslexia. Bush appoints commission to separate truth from fiction. Developing....
The Latest
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:12:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Read it and weep: http://shethink13.freeyellow.com/CountyMap2.gif
Bush takes counties in a landslide
- Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 00:08:32 (EST)
My two cents are: state.tx/ and whose idea
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:30:03 (EST)
My two cents are: Let Junior know what you think of him: www.governor.sate.tx.us/e-mail. html. By the way, who's idea was it that US federal and state governments have websites? Right! That guy who won the popular vote! Go Gore!!
Votegate
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:28:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Lawsuits not being brought by Gore, contrary to fascist TV pundits. Lawsuits being brought by citizens, who have a leg to stand on. Lawsuit will be decided according to Florida state law.
they can prove all they need to, tough luck Junior
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:14:00 (EST)
My two cents are: Precedent: Rutherford Haye's undecided election stayed undecided until March.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:11:48 (EST)
My two cents are: This explains why Petes world only has two colors: black and white.
whatta rainbow
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:09:39 (EST)
My two cents are: In Pete's absentee ballotworld, there are neither expats no diplomats.
Petes absentee brain
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:08:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Let your voices be heard: Jeb Bush's: [email protected]. and/or Kathleen Harris: [email protected].// Pete, Dubya's a fucking liar wimp. The only reason he hasn't conceded is that he has NO BALLS. Es un hombre todamente sin cojones. Toodles!
Pancho vVlla
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 23:07:18 (EST)
My two cents are: In the end, assuming no more fraud by Democrats, it will come down to the Jewish and criminal absentee vote versus the absentee military vote. And I don't need to tell you how those groups pare it out. G'night!
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:47:41 (EST)
My two cents are: By the way, before all you liberals get too excited about an electoral college revolt, Congress has the ultimate authority to accept or reject an electors vote since the issue of whether an elector has been appointed is a matter of federal constitutional law, even if appointment is a matter of State law. The Republican controlled Congress will not elt an elector switch away from Bush. Check.
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:46:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Democrats in name : IF the approach of William Daley, Al Gore's campaign manager, is anything to go by, the Democrats are trying to overturn an uncongenial election result - partly by means of a legal fiat. In that sense, their strategy is reminiscent of their handling of Watergate in 1973-74, when they sought to undo Nixon's victory in 1972. Mr Daley's remarks suggest that they will seek to turn political turmoil into a constitutional crisis, by calling into question the process that yielded this outcome - the electoral college. According to this view, the will of the people has been frustrated by the fact that, even if George W Bush wins Florida, Mr Gore will still have a popular vote majority nationwide. Of course, if the Florida recount yields a definitive result, the vanquished candidate should abide by it. But an overturned result is not the same as an illegitimate result deriving from alleged imperfections in the system. No one objected to the rules before November 8 - least of all the Democrats, who shared the conventional wisdom that the likely outcome was a popular majority for Mr Bush and an electoral college majority for Mr Gore. As the commentator David Frum has revealed, before election day a dozen pro-Democratic commentators submitted articles to a leading American journal insisting that outcomes under the existing system be upheld: all demanded that their contributions be pulled once the result was known. But let us pretend that Mr Daley is right about irregularities in Florida - an odd assertion, since the local Democratic attorney general, who is the local chairman of the Gore campaign, approved the ballot paper personally. The electoral college, in fact, militates against any widespread fraud. It limits the power of slick local bosses, such as Mr Daley's father, to just one state (the late mayor of Chicago helped steal the 1960 race). The critics laughing at a "Mickey Mouse country" should consider the effect of a majoritarian system on a vast, federal nation. A system dependent on nationwide aggregates and corrupt machines could influence the outcome much more. And imagine a transcontinental recount: if 67 counties in Florida cause so many problems, just think what would happen if returns had to be scrutinised in more than 3,100 counties. We would then still be waiting for a result in 2004. Now that really would be a constitutional crisis - except, of course, for Bill Clinton.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:38:42 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't know about lerts, but I know there are newts about.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:33:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Just wanted to see if anyone was alert. Good
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:32:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Wrong. Whoever wins Florida wins it all.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:16:24 (EST)
My two cents are: Do you realize that if New Mexico goes back to Gore it ends in a 269-269 tie. Fla will mean nothing if Gore gets NM.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 22:15:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Oregon is Gore's. Is now at 262. When he wins NH back and NM its over.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:59:27 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush wins by 331 votes.

- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:43:29:27 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush wins by 331 votes.

- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:43:29 (EST)
My two cents are: Albuquerque Channel 7 just reported that another (and final) 607 ballots are being processed as I write this. 252 of these are the missing and now found ballots. They had the original two locks on them and are being counted. Also, 355 early voter ballots that the machine wouldn't read are being hand counted (over objections of the Democrats). The found ballots are from a mostly (hopefully) Republican district in the North Valley. Here is the good part: GORE HAS ONLY A 119 VOTE LEAD IN NM WITHOUT THESE BALLOTS.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:14:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Hillary says Nader Should be Killed" on Hardball
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 21:10:27 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, most of the Republican leadership had some sort of sex problem that didn't meet the Starr standards. Hyde, Barr, Livingston, Gingrich.... the list is pretty long, essentially anyone who has got anywhere in the party. That's a big part of the reason they saddled themselves with Bush, and had to run such an openly dishonest campaign. Fraudulence is a tough thing to manage, and attempted on a national scale it's almost a sure loser in the long run.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:49:17 (EST)
My two cents are: Is there any provision for an undecided election plicans really send their electors if the Florida scams aren't straightened out? Would it go to Denny Hastert? Jeez, Denny's not even up to the level of Gerald Ford-- it's too bad Livingston didn't become speaker, got knocked out because he kept using the government lines for phone sex, and romped with prostitutes too openly.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:34:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Geraldine Ferraro, former Democrat congresswoman from New York and 1984 vice-presidential candidate, said President Bill Clinton could stay in office beyond the Jan. 20 inauguration date should the current presidential election results be delayed. The stunning remark was made during an interview today at approximately 1:20 p.m. Eastern on Fox News Channel's "Fox News Live" program, to which Ferraro is a regular contributor. Ferraro expressed her belief that the United States is not approaching a "constitutional crisis" and that Americans live in a "strong country." The United States has a president in office until Jan. 20, and if need be, he can stay in office beyond that date, she said.
shaddup, stupid!
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:24:04 (EST)
My two cents are: 9 Nov, 2000 CNN; Jim Smith, Former Florida Secretary of State; WSJ, 11-10-2000) The news media is focused on the Democratic Party spin that voters were "confused" in Palm Beach, FL. They are ignoring the 15,000 BUSH and 3,400 Buchanan votes were stolen by fraud in these 19,000 ballots. There is explicit statistical evidence of massive ballot tampering in Palm Beach FL. These ballots show Democratic voter fraud....NOT Republican fraud or "voter error." Consider these "unusual" ballot problems in Palm Beach, FL - every one of them adds more Gore votes, and removed Republican and Reform party votes. ---...--- The voter fraud in the most heavily Democratic precincts Palm Beach County is so bad that Democratic officials are claiming that over 26 people per minute "were confused" and voted twice for President! This means that more voters were being handed new ballots per minute than new voters were being signed in. (19,200 "double punched" Democratic ballots divided by 12 hours, there are approximately 100 precincts in Palm Beach County. The errors are concentrated in only a few of these of these precincts, ALL predominately democratic and ALL with Democratic voter officials.) ---...--- ONLY in Palm Beach FL were 15,000 ballots "double punched" in the 1996 election. (This is unique among the entire nation! It is an error rate TEN TIMES larger than reported in ANY other district in the nation using that kind of ballot!) ONLY in Palm Beach (and almost ONLY heavily Democratic precincts) were 19,200 ballots rejected in 2000 for double punching....(This is a 4.4% error rate overall; in the rest of Florida there is less than � of ONE percent "double punch" error rate! (Unofficially, this error rate was 15% in predominately Afro-American precincts, and 10% in precincts with large numbers of Jewish retirees.) In strongly Republican precincts, the error rate was the "usual" � of one percent.) ONLY in Palm Beach did this "double punch" error happen ONLY in the Gore-Bush-Buchanan selection. (In a truly random "error," the mistakes happen in every race, all at about the same rate. In Palm Beach, the massive errors (over 19,000) ONLY happened in the Presidential race.) ONLY in Palm Beach has the news media complained about "massive" ballot confusion. In the 43 counties in Missouri, also mostly Democratic voters, which use the same kind of ballot, there are NO complaints about "confused voters" at all. (St Louis Post Dispatch, Nov 8, 2000) Therefore, ONLY in Palm Beach FL do the Democrats have to "explain" a massive number of incorrect votes. ONLY in Palm Beach did Gore GAIN 750 votes in a recount. In 64 out of 67 counties in FL, the average gain was 5-7 votes, and the "changes" were equally split between ALL the candidates, in proportion to the original number of votes. This means that Palm Beach FL had an error rate in favor of Gore more than 120 TIMES greater than any other county, (Two other heavily Democratic "inner city" counties (Flagler and Pinellas) had changes greater than 400 votes.) In a statistically valid recount, half of the errors would favor Bush, and half favor Gore. This extreme change from the normal in only three counties shows massive "favoritism" towards Gore in those three counties.) In Palm Beach Gore got more votes than there are registered Democrats. (Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections: registered Democrats = 296,122 while Gore voters = 296.696.) ONLY in Palm Beach did Bush receive LESS than 65% of the registered Republican voters. (Registered Republicans = 231,626 while Bush voters = 152,954.) In every other county in FL Bush received MORE votes than there were registered Republicans. In the rest of the nation, poll results show more than 90% of registered Republicans actively supported the Republican candidate. (Also, unique in the entire state, the percentage of Republican voters COUNTED as voting in Palm Beach was much less than normal, despite the pre-election attention to Florida as a critical state; and massive Republican get-out-the-vote campaigns.) ONLY in Palm Beach did Buchanan get less than HALF the of votes he received before in 1996. His losses in that county in 2000 were much greater than in any other district in Florida. (Buchanan received over 8,000 votes in 1996 Republican PRIMARY (where only registered Republicans can vote; but he received only 3,407 under the Reform Party from ALL voters in the 2000 Presidential election. (Pat Buchanan has relatives who lives in Palm Beach County, and this local support greatly increase the number of local voters who choose Buchanan, compared to every other region of the country. There are over 14,551 members of the Reform party in Palm Beach County - which indicates that less than 1/5 of the Reform voters voted for their own candidate. The Fraud is NOT whether Gore voters were "confused" and voted for Gore, but rather WHY Reform Party and Libertarian voters were prevented from registering THEIR vote!) ONLY in Palm Beach County did the Reform Party candidate for Senator get MORE votes than the the reform Party candidate for President (Buchanan)...in every other coutry, the candidate for Senator for EVERY party got FEWER votes than the candidate for President from that party did. ---...---... There is a simple, single explanation for ALL of these 19,000 problems in ONE set of ballots in ONE district in ONE state. 15,000 Bush ballots, and 3,400 more Buchanan ballots, were double-punched to imitate a Gore vote, AFTER legitimate left their polling booth. Assume 35,000 ballots were stuck with a stiff wire. It would take somebody a little bit of privacy and about 15 minutes. A ream of paper is 1 inch thick, 35,000 many ballots can be carried by one person in one small box, damaged, and returned to position very quickly. Originally, 3,000 = Buchanan 15,000 = Bush 15,000 = Gore 1,250 = other parties 750 = "blank" - No vote for President; other spots may be filled in. After .... 3,000 Buchanan + Gore = thrown out. 15,000 Bush + Gore = thrown out. Gore (+ Gore) = GOOD VOTES for Gore = counted already 1,250 + others + Gore = thrown out. 750 = "blank" + Gore = Gore gets recount! Stamping 35,000 ballots with a wire THROUGH the Gore slot gives: Every Gore vote = still a valid Gore vote. (No change in the total, no change in the recount.) Every Bush, Buchanan, Workers Party, and Libertarian Party ballot IS IMMEDIATELY INVALID. They will be thrown out because they have two votes. They NEVER were counted in the first place = no change in the recount. EVERY ballot that HAD NO VOTE becomes a Gore vote. The recount immediately ADDS these (751) ballots to the Gore column BECAUSE the original count had NO vote for president! (Isn't it LIKELY that at least 750 people were disgusted with BOTH major presidential candidates and made NO vote for president?) The key: KEEPING THE BALLOTS as evidence. IMMEDIATELY! 2. RECOUNTING them by hand...since the voting machine will reject them....if the percentages match these numbers THERE WAS FRAUD. 3. Finding out WHEN these ballots were thrown out - OR NEVER COUNTED AT ALL! will tell you when the fraud was done. .... If the ballots include an equal number of Bush + Gore" and "Gore + Gore" ballots....then that shows that this set of ballots were tampered with and never counted in the first place ... because they KNEW that they "all" be excluded. IF the ballots include "no" (or very few) Bush + Buchanan, or "Buchanan + somebody + Gore votes" else....then it shows that they were deliberately tampered with to exclude (throw out) otherwise valid Bush votes. Obviously....EVERY tampered ballot WILL include a GORE vote! That would "justify" the Democratic "claims" for Fraud BY the Republicans. To verify this....count the doubled ballots, list each with what OTHER votes were cast. No "legitimate" Gore voter would choose other Republican choices, or at least very, very few would. IF almost all of the Bush + Gore ballots had mostly Republican choices, or blanks where there is a Democrat running unopposed, then that shows a Bush vote that was destroyed. ONLY where the Gore + Buchanan ballots shows almost all Democrats, those "one or two" ballots will show the few cases where some Gore supporter actually got confused! BUT the Democrats are claiming that these are "double -punched! They know...and were told early this morning! to collect 3000 old folks who could claim they were confused...They quickly needed a cover story to explain that the ballots were "confusing" to create the 3000 Gore - Buchanan "voters" that they need. But today...even the local democratic officials couldn't "find" that many confused individuals so quickly. Now, they claiming "hundreds" - and can't even verify that many. No lists, no names, no verification. Just their verbal claims on TV. ---...--- THEY HAVEN'T EXPLAINED why 15,000 ballots were double-punched in 1996 AND in 2000. Other than that the election officials did it TWICE. Much simpler to stack the ballots up so they all can be read by . just grab an unsorted stack of ballots from the box. Get about 100 -150 ballots - drill a hole through the Gore punch, or use a stiff wire - it will take you about 5 seconds per stack. (If you use a drill - the "holes" will look funny - BUT these ballots are NOT meant to be counted again. They were meant to be thrown out as duplicates! If you use a stiff wire...there is nothing to see. IF THE HOLE WAS PUNCHED BY WIRE - THE hole will be ragged and torn, the paper will "ahnging" because the ballot below will prevent the hole from being torn cleanly! Put the stack back in the box...grab another bunch. The "good" Gore ballots will still have the original "hole" punched out ... and so will get "re-counted" along with all the rest. ---...--- To test this theory....Manually count the double-punched ballots - looking for fraud under rules of evidence - this has become a criminal CASE - the examiners do not have to look for "missed" Gore votes.....The Gore votes ARE the evidence of fraud. A Republican voter will have in almost every case have punched Bush + several other Republican candidates. So look for how many "Bush + Gore" ballots have mostly Republican choices below. THESE ARE FRAUDS. They represent Bush votes that were stolen. A "true" Buchanan voter would have punched Buchanan and a mix of other candidates....A Libertarian voter would have almost "had" to select other Republican candidates....since there are few Libertarian candidates for every position. Either of these are frauds too! A "mistaken" "Gore into Buchanan" voter would ALMOST CERTAINLY chosen the Democrats in the rest of the ballot.....or, IF AS THEY CLAIM, those "Gore into Buchanan" voters that were "told to push the second hole" really meant "only followed directions" ---- THEN the rest of the ballot would be solid Democrat, or blank. After all...nobody "told" them to vote for anybody else! The few "Gore + Buchanan" ballots that are totally blank below - or have many other mistakes on them .. are the only ones that "might be" mistakes.....two or three people are sure to made errors. NOT 15,000 voters in 1996....and 15,000 voters in 2000. When NO OTHER county in the nation has that many errors. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Democrat demand to "hand count" ballots on Saturday (11 Nov) will destroy the fingerprint evidence of who commited this fraud. Also, the democrat demand to hand count these ballots and "look at" the punches "to determine the intent of the voter" will specifically be looking at the WRONG evidence: they are going to use the potential evidence of fraud (hanging paper threads on a Gore+ Buchanan or Gore + Bush ballot) as evidence of a GORE vote. IF the hole is legitimately punched - the the hole was made in the machine, at the ballot box, the hole is "clean" - the pice of paper goes through and goes away because the "back" of the ballot machine is "open" to specifically allow that! IF the ballot is "double punched" by a wire through MANY ballots AT THE SAME TIME ... which creates many THOUSAND "double punched" ballots - ALL with GORE votes + somebody else's "valid" votes that are REJECTED - then the "hole" CAN'T be cleanly punched and is "messy" WITH DANGLING PAPER and "almost" attached punches.... THE EVIDENCE THE HAND_COUNT IS LOOKING FOR IS EVIDENCE OF 15,000 BUSH BALLOTS THAT WERE VOIDED BY THE DEMOCRATS!
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:21:28 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush senior still rents a texas hotel room as his "legal address" for IRS reporting. I'm sure Neal has one too probably. No state taxes is sort of ok for a no benefit state, meaning that the poor don't have to pay, but you take these billionaires that abuse the intent and, well look at it, the entire bush clan streuctures their legal residences to avoid taxes the rest of us pay. Privilige at the expense of others ,,, the bush family motto.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:18:13 (EST)
My two cents are: The other thing for bushie, it that Texas wants him back. he fucked up our state budget surplus, largest in history and put us into a deficit, refused to support hate crime legislation, opposed childrens health insurance ad naseum. many here, including both sides of the hillbilly partys we have here want a piece of the carpetbagging son of a bitch. Remeber, despite kenneybunkport, senior and junior are texas residents and pay no state income taxes. Residents of florida like the jebster also pay no income taxes. State suffers lower services and poorer roads because of it, but for a yankee with scads of unearned income, its a fucking gold mine. Bushes...enough said for now.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:14:45 (EST)
My two cents are: That might be great news for retchies but for Americans it will prove to be a disaster.........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:09:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi mary, nice to see you visiting. Protesting continues to mount outside bushes texas governors mansion. Bushie appeared today with a 4x4 bandage hanging off of the side of his face. Ms ydog suggests it to be a paper cut from fumbling with florida ballots in the dark. Also said "it's his fucking brother's state, don't hand me that crap about honesty"//Media is staying in austin, hotel crisis, the media smells dead meat here, hovering like vultures for the predicted bush concession, or tantrum. Bandage large enought to cover walking into a door, rugburn from passing out on a shag carpet, or possibly a left (get it) hook. Protesters are calling for a real count where indicated. Meanwhile, the entire bush camp plans to leave austin for a retreat to a hill country resort hotel. no room for media in the smallish town they've chosen.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:09:08 (EST)
My two cents are: FRIDAY NOVEMBER 10 2000 Bush acts as a President to select his team FROM JAMES BONE IN AUSTIN, TEXAS GEORGE W. BUSH sought to pre-empt a lengthy Democratic challenge to his claimed victory by acting in a presidential manner yesterday and insisting that he would embark on his transition to the White House. Ensconced in a whitecolumned governor�s mansion that resembles a mini-White House, Mr Bush intimated through aides that he planned to turn to his father�s Gulf War commanders in the early days of power by naming General Colin Powell and Dick Cheney to top posts. Mr Cheney, Mr Bush�s vice-presidential running mate and his father�s Gulf War Defence Secretary, was expected to be put in charge of the transition team that will select other members of a Bush Administration.
The Boys are Back in Town
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 20:03:37 (EST)
My two cents are: ABCNews (Nov 10) Florida�s closely watched vote count isn�t the only one still in question. At least, three additional states - Oregon, Iowa and Wisconsin - may see their presidential votes end with recounts. Iowa, with seven electoral votes, and Wisconsin, with 11, currently are in the Democratic presidential column. The outcome of Oregon�s presidential race, with seven electoral votes in the balance, is still to be determined. And for now, so is New Mexico�s. In Wisconsin, where Bush lost by about 6,000 votes, there is no automatic recount. But a candidate may request a recount. The Bush campaign said it is looking at that possibility. A Wisconsin Republican official said on Good Morning America the GOP is suspicious of some results in that state. �We have rampant reports of voter irregularities and voter fraud, perhaps, in Milwaukee County and outside of Milwaukee County,� said Rick Graber, the head of the Wisconsin Republican Party. In one instance, he alleged, �a New York Democratic operative found herself in Milwaukee passing out cigarettes in exchange for votes for the vice president.�
Smokin' In the Boys' Room
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:59:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Nov. 10 - A corrected voting glitch has cut into Al Gore�s lead in New Mexico, making it unclear whether he or George W. Bush won the state�s presidential vote. ABCNEWS and other organizations have pulled New Mexico�s five electoral votes from Gore�s column, giving him 255 electoral votes to Bush�s 246, with New Mexico, Oregon and Florida still to be decided.
Tequila Sunrise
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:57:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Calif. Absentees Could Tip National Popular Vote to Bush SACRAMENTO, Calif. (Reuters) - More than a million California absentee ballots that remain to be counted could well tip the national popular vote total to Republican candidate George W. Bush, officials said on Friday. While current popular vote totals put Democrat Al Gore ahead of Bush by some 200,000 votes nationwide, California Secretary of State Bill Jones was still awaiting word on at least 1,015,434 absentee ballots. "There are a lot of ballots out there from Orange County San Diego and the Central Valley, all of which are more conservative regions of the state," Jones" spokesman Alfie Charles said on Friday.
California Dreamin'
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:56:27 (EST)
My two cents are: I like a fight as much as anyone else. However, I think it would better for the country if Gore would concede and go back to mesmerizing chickens.
Jo Bob Henry Jed
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:53:53 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi John. Did you hear that Fox News and voter.com have both stripped Gore of the NM electoral votes in their counts? The rumor I heard (no cite, sorry) is that according to Albuquerque's KKOB-AM 770 Bush trails by just 106 votes. Of course there are still the 250+ "missing" ballots.
Glint
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:17:39 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/genetic/tcge057.jpg
my ma and family
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:04:26 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/genetic/tcge007.jpg
my baby pictures
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 19:00:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Looks as though Clinton will be moving his library to Turk Is or Aruba . He said if they disbarred him he would construct it elsewhere./// Republicans are really wporried about the vote in Fla. and are trying hard to take NM and Ore along with Wis and Iowa so this has developed into a monster that just keeps growing, like The Blob in the old Steve McQueen movie...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:58:15 (EST)
My two cents are: Human error, and punching holes. The system has already run as intended. Gore should accept it as is.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:56:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Good point, anon. :) I'm off of here for the day, nice to touch base with all of you.
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:53:50 (EST)
My two cents are: What does Bush have against hand-counting the ballots, other than it might whittle down his massive margin of victory?
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:49:28 (EST)
My two cents are: "My dogs are all watching me right now like I was their next meal....John� http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/forensic/tcfor054.jpg
THEN YOU CAN APPRECIATE THIS
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:45:17 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/forensic/tcfor048.jpg
DON't TRY THIS ALONE AT HOME
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:42:51 (EST)
My two cents are: http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/forensic/tcfor038.jpg
WEIRD
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:40:13 (EST)
My two cents are: LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) -- The state legal committee trying to disbar President Clinton has asked in court that he either admit or deny he tried to mislead lawyers for Paula Jones about his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. The state Supreme Court Committee on Professional Conduct also asked in papers filed on Thursday that Clinton either admit or deny the body of evidence that led a federal judge to hold the him in contempt of court for giving misleading testimony in the Jones sexual harassment suit against him. The committee has filed suit in Pulaski County Circuit Court to have Clinton stripped of his Arkansas law license -- a first for a sitting president -- contending he was unfit to practice law because he gave misleading testimony under oath about his relationship with Lewinsky. It is seeking a hearing by the end of the year.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:39:34 (EST)
My two cents are: Breaking news: NewsMax.com has learned from high-level Bush campaign officials that the Republican Party in Florida is filing suit to stop any hand recount of votes that is planned over the next several days in Palm Beach, Broward and Miami-Dade counties.
can you see the hand pricks pushing the gore hole on the recount
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:23:40 (EST)
My two cents are: You have to admit, Mary, that's probably the first time anyone described GW Bush as "wise."
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:22:15 (EST)
My two cents are: >"In retrospect, lighting the match was my big mistake. But I was only >trying to retrieve the gerbil," Eric Tomaszewski told bemused doctors in >the Severe Burns Unit of Salt Lake City Hospital. Tomaszewski, and his >homosexual partner Andrew "Kiki" Farnum, had been admitted for emergency >treatment after a felching session had gone seriously wrong. "I pushed a >cardboard tube up his rectum and slipped Raggot, our gerbil, in," he >explained. "As usual, Kiki shouted out "Armageddon", my cue that he'd >had enough. I tried to retrieve Raggot but he wouldn't come out again, >so I peered into the tube and struck a match, thinking the light might >attract him." > >At a hushed press conference, a hospital spokesman described what >happened next. "The match ignited a pocket of intestinal >gas and a flame shot out the tube, igniting Mr Tomaszewski's hair and >severely burning his face. It also set fire to the gerbil's fur and >whiskers which in turn ignited a larger pocket of gas further up the >intestine, propelling the rodent out like a cannonball."
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:19:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Cecil Adams, in his Straight Dope column (collected into several books) at first thought the rumour might be true, but says that all attempts to track down a real case have been unsuccessful and says that he now is confident that it's merely a legend. Jan Harold Brunvand discusses it as an urban legend (and agrees that it's false) in his book on urban legends, The Mexican Pet. The guy who writes "News of the Weird" published a list of objects found up the down staircase which included a rodent. On being asked by Cecil for a source, he hastily retracted the gerbil (ummm, you know what I mean); he had mistaken his original query for such a cite as being a cite. Or something like that; the correspondence is in one of Cecil's books. There's been nothing relevant published in the medical literature, according to Medline. A 1993 search is mentioned in the AFU FAQ (http://www.urbanlegends.com/) and I've repeated it since then with no positives. Requests on various medical newsgroups have turned up no eyewitness, and requests for gossip among my doctor buddies have only raised their eyebrows. Good old anonymous nobody is the first to make the claim. (Incidentally, in contrast to his suggestion that MDs are bashful about descriptions and prefer to simply use "rectal foreign object," the literature is simply crammed full of rectal objects, described in loving detail.) Checking with a MD who claimed to have seen an x-ray revealed that he had not seen the patient, and had no evidence that the x-ray was not faked. It was passed to him by an x-ray technician, who had had it passed to him by another x-ray tech from another hospital, and so forth. Combining two x-rays (e.g. one shot of a colon, one of a rodent) is quite simple, according to photographers who discussed this at the time. An MD claimed to have seen an x-ray of a rectal rodent while a medical student (the MD, not the rodent). I wrote to the professor he remembered as showing the x-ray, who replied that he had shown x-rays of a rectal tumbler and of a snake digesting a rodent, and presumed that the student had conflated the two in memory.
"the sad truth about gerbeling"
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 18:09:52 (EST)
My two cents are: "My son tells me that here in Tucson, in 1917, we had a ballot double punched. A judge ordered both votes counted. I don't know where he found that information."
probably somewhere without much sunshine
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:48:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Bye, Whatever :) .
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:42:46 (EST)
My two cents are: He was worth that response. Thanks a lot, Mary. I'm glad you understand. A lot of us felt that way, and still do. Well, keep hope alive.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:42:25 (EST)
My two cents are: That was yo mama, 'Toine.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:41:22 (EST)
My two cents are: 'Where is Jeb?'
right here, hi.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:40:56 (EST)
My two cents are: Whatever, John...You are right about 'toine. Thanks. He is a sorry jerk, not worth a response.
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:40:49 (EST)
My two cents are: whatever was so high on crack she thought she saw jesus givin' her the look.
then she fell off and passed out on the bathroom floor
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:38:14 (EST)
My two cents are: Whatever, yes, I saw some of your posts on Wednesday. I had to read with a quick glance..so I didn't scroll and didn't read everything. For a moment, I thought about getting on and saying YES, WHATEVER I HEAR YOU,I was so glad someone else was in sync with my feelings. But I didn't want to upset fate and was holding out for a miracle in Florida. I didn't want to say anything at all,in case voicing my opinion would somehow change things. ( superstitious from too many ballgames) ;)
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:37:47 (EST)
My two cents are: You would poke hole #2, fudgepacker. Anyway, I'm going home, have a great weekend, y'all. Try to, at least. :-)
Whatver
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:35:31 (EST)
My two cents are: i don't care if you're in florida or not. i wasn't talking about your ballot box.
i think i'll poke hole #2
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:33:57 (EST)
My two cents are: And where is Jeb?!
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:28:30 (EST)
My two cents are: Mary, I told all these guys that we started singing spirituals when they took Florida back. My friend passed out, and I woke up with a headache like I was hung over. I have a terrible feeling about this whole thing. I'm still depressed about it, but I suppose there's nothing we can do now. It really is a tragedy. I don't know what will become of this. I'm just waiting to see what scandal(s) will arise in this alleged administration.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:27:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Register Staff Writer 11/10/2000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thousands of special ballots have yet to be counted in Iowa, where Democrat Al Gore won the state by 5,069 votes. Unofficial results from county auditors show Vice President Gore with 635,367 votes and Republican George W. Bush with 630,298. The totals do not include special ballots, which are cast by people whose names were not listed at polling sites. Polk County alone, Auditor Michael Mauro said 2,164 special ballots were cast and are being reviewed. Special ballots, also called challenged ballots, are checked manually after an election. They will be included in next week's canvasses, when county auditors bring their results to the counties' boards of supervisors, who are charged with declaring them official. The canvasses are scheduled for Monday and Tuesday. This year's "motor voter" problem may have played a role in the number of special ballots cast. A glitch in the Department of Transportation's computers lost the names of about 5,600 Iowa voters who signed up at driver's license stations. Some of those people had to vote by special ballot Tuesday.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:23:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Governor Thompson of Wisconsin has indicated that the vote count continues in Wisconsin, and that the margin will be down to approximately 2,000 by Monday.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:20:34 (EST)
My two cents are: "Impossible," raged Shirley Datz, a retired systems analyst. "Even one vote for Buchanan would be impossible here." "Never!" shouted Frank Ventry, 84, who has voted in every presidential election since Franklin D. Roosevelt but ripped up his ballot Tuesday when he realized he accidentally voted for Buchanan. "I'm outraged," added the community's president, Arthur Robb, who said his wife, Sylvia, was so confused by the ballot that she mistakenly cast her vote for Buchanan rather than Vice President Al Gore. "It's something that never should have happened. It's something that couldn't have happened," Robb said. "You see, the average age here is 75. The community is 95% Jewish. It's almost entirely Democratic."
waaaaah! we voted for death camps! waaaaaaaaah!!!!
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:20:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Whatever, I cried Tuesday night when I thought Gore would lose. I had a gripping fear in my heart for the country,it was awful. I went to sleep depressed, didnt stay up to watch the seesaw media returns. First thought upon awakening....was "THIS IS A TRAGEDY." I couldn't accept it even with all the hullabaloo, I knew only Divine Intervention would change things..and God doesnt vote. I couldn't get on the page till now. Too emotional over all this, I had to take time to process the truth. But Bush is a "Uniter not a Divider". Let's see how serious he is, about this. I have no real fear of Bush....Cheney is about as conservative and mean and lean as Helms. He scares me! I hope Cantwell wins!
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:17:52 (EST)
My two cents are: FLA RECOUNT UPDATE: George Bush 2,910,203 Albert Gore 2,909,872 100% Reporting Official Fla Election Page MORE: Iowa GOP considers recount A "confident" Bush vows to work with Gore supporters STOCK MARKET PLUNGES ON REMARKS BY DALEY AND CHRISTOPHER OREGON VOTE: Gore maintains slim lead Congressman Robert Wexler and Rev. Jesse Jackson meet with a church congregation in Palm Beach County over alleged ballot problems. FLORIDA WIRE: Florida election officials maintain Bush leads by 960 votes with two counties outstanding in recount.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:16:51 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete just wants his tax cut,to hell with the rest of America and what might happen with this half wit in office.........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:16:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Perhaps, but at least there will be some effort to unwind the massive brainwashing of America by Clinton and his cronies. That is the danger of continuing his group. Al, is a yes man for virtue-less personal self interest. America needs a bath from that group.
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:14:48 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi, John, Pete, Whatever.// I have been listening to Baker. He is spinning. He would not be saying this if the shoe was on the other foot.// I did not know there was a historical precedent, John. That's interesting.// My son tells me that here in Tucson, in 1917, we had a ballot double punched. A judge ordered both votes counted. I don't know where he found that information. //Pete, I think Bush already won. But if he wins the popular vote, its still razor thin, and with the confusion in Florida and the votes for Nader......conservatism better heed. The extremists do not have a mandate. Bush is wise enough to know this.
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:12:16 (EST)
My two cents are: I guess you guys are right. I suppose we all have no choice but to accept the frightful truth. Well, Pete, you've got what you wanted. Don't say we didn't tell you so when the economy gets flushed down the toilet.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:10:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Pete, no one could say that.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:08:32 (EST)
My two cents are: Whatever, i know toine has problems. I ignore him and treat him like the junior high juvenile he is. Most every one I talk to has no problem with the ballot, but I can see how confusion could happen. Just open minded. Buchanan said the same thing. Besides, more than a few were confused. That's a substantial number. But revote.....I dont think that's wise. That's like saying I thought a yes meant a no. i was confused on the iniative.....i want a revote. Impractical. Just wait.....GORE IN 2004.
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:06:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Mary, if Bush wins the popular vote and is over 20 points ahead of Gore in the final electoral college outcome, can anyone say the Constitution has not been followed?
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:06:50 (EST)
My two cents are: Governor George W. Bush won 31 states with a total of 271 electoral votes. The vote here in Florida was very close, but when it was counted, Governor Bush was the winner. Now, three days later, the vote in Florida has been re-counted. Over two-thirds of the state election supervisors overseeing that recount are Democrats. At the end of this re-count, Governor Bush is still the winner, subject only to counting the overseas ballots, which traditionally have favored the Republican candidates. No evidence of vote fraud, either in the original vote or in the recount, has been presented. Now, the Gore campaign is calling for yet another re-count in selective and predominantly Democratic counties where there were large unexplained vote swings in their favor in the re-count. It appears that the Gore campaign is attempting to unduly prolong the country's national presidential through endless challenges to the results of the vote here in Florida. Furthermore, the more often ballots are re-counted, especially by hand, the more likely it is that human errors, like lost ballots and other risks, will be introduced. This frustrates the very reason why we have moved from hand counting to machine counting. Let me say a word specifically about the Palm Beach ballot. There's a rule of law to be followed in all elections. The state of Florida has established legal procedures to design, approve, publish, and if need be to protest ballots before the election. The ballot was designed by a Democratic elections supervisor. She approved it. The Democratic Party did not question it before the election. This butterfly-type ballot was used in recent elections in the same county and under the same rules and, again, the Democrats did not complain. The overwhelming majority of voters who used the ballot in this election understood it and they cast valid votes. Our lawyers have confirmed the legality of this ballot. And we have with us here today relevant copies - copies of the relevant Florida statutes if you would like to have them. The Gore campaign has also tried to make a lot of the fact that double-marked ballots are not counted. A key principle in American elections is one person, one vote. If we have ballots with two votes, of course we can't count them, and of course we can't guess about them. Ballots that are double-marked can't be evidence of the voter's intent to vote one way or the other. No jurisdiction in the United States of America would accept such a ballot as a valid vote, and Florida law specifically does not. This happens in every precinct and in every election. And the procedure is very clear. Those ballots have to be disregarded. We understand - and let me say that I understand personally, because I've been involved in them, that it is frustrating to lose an election by a narrow margin, but it happens. And it happened to the Republican presidential candidates in 1960 and in 1976. Both Vice President Nixon and President Ford put the country's interests first. They accepted the vote for the good of the country. It is important, ladies and gentlemen, that there be some finality to the election process. What if we insisted on re-counts in other states that today are very, very close - for example, in Wisconsin, or in Iowa, or, if we should happen to lose it, in New Mexico. Let the country step back for a minute and pause and think about what's at stake here. This may be the last chance to do that. There is no reasonable end to this process if it slips away. The purpose of our national election is to establish a constitutional government, not unending legal wrangling. We will, therefore, vigorously oppose the Gore campaign's efforts to keep re-counting, over and over, until it happens to like the result. For the good of the country, and for the sake of our standing in the world, the campaigning should end and the business of an orderly transition should begin. Wolf? QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, are you saying that Vice President business of an orderly transition should begin. Wolf? QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, are you saying that Vice President Gore should concede before next Friday's official count here in Florida ends? BAKER: I didn't say that, Wolf, but let me - let me say that I am drawn back to the memory of 1960. I'm particularly drawn back to the memory of 1976 when I was in the room, and many, many people were arguing to President Ford that he should insist upon a re-count, because he was only some 7,000 votes or so down in Ohio, and the change of a few votes would have tipped the election. And he said, ``No.'' He said, ``That's not what would be good for the country.'' What I am saying here is that Florida has voted twice; Governor Bush won the first vote. We have had a transparent and fair and orderly recount, and he has won that. And there have been no challenges, by way of vote fraud or otherwise in the re-count. And I think that it is very responsible of Governor Bush, if I can put it this way, to say, there needs to be some closure at some point. He is not saying today that he has won this election, because he acknowledges that the overseas ballots have to be counted, because they have not yet been counted. But to suggest that we should keep counting ballots that have been counted once, and even twice, over and over again, I think is not a fair position to take, nor a responsible position to take. And it would be my hope that the candidate of the other party would acknowledge that. Yes, sir? QUESTION: (off-microphone) BAKER: No, I haven't said that we would challenge, nor have I said that we would not challenge. What I've done is use that as an example of the kind of endless wrangling and procedures and legal maneuvering that we can get into, if we keep going down the path we are currently on, as a consequence of the Gore campaign insisting - asking for re-count after re-count after re-count. And what I'm saying further is that that will destroy, in my opinion, the traditional process for selecting our presidents in this country, which happens, in my view, to be one of the strengths of American democracy. Yes, sir? QUESTION: Mr. Baker, how long a time is too long a time to wait for a result here? BAKER: The law of Florida requires that with respect to the overseas ballots, we wait until they can legally be counted. They have not been counted. But except for that, the responsible and fair and legally I think sufficient and correct position to take would be for us to acknowledge that if we keep going down the path we're on, if we keep being put in the position of having to respond to re-count after re-count after re-count of the same ballots, then we just can't sit on our hands and we will be forced to do what might be in our best personal interest, but not - it would not be in the best interests of our wonderful country. And what's happening now, if I may say so, is not in the best interests of our country. And there's a way - and there's a way to stop that. There's a way to bring this thing back before it spirals totally out of control. And bring it back to - bring it back to rationality and to finality. And that's the responsible position, I think, that it would be my hope that both candidates could take. Governor Bush has made it very clear that he participated in an open, transparent recount. He's willing to await the judgment of these overseas ballots because they've never been counted. But as far as continuing to play this game of unending wrangling and recount after recount after recount, that's just not something that we can do. BAKER: Yes? QUESTION: (off-microphone) BAKER: Well, we are more than two months away from the inauguration. But I would almost bet you that in many foreign countries, they're having a lot of difficulty understanding exactly what's going on here, and why, particularly given the tradition, the way we've traditionally handled these close elections in the United States where the losing party puts the nation's interests first, they're probably going to have some difficulty understanding what's happening here. (CROSSTALK) QUESTION: (off-microphone) BAKER: You all know what the numbers are. I'm also... (CROSSTALK) BAKER: Wait a minute, just a minute. Do you want an answer or do you want to make a speech? Let me say this. What I'm saying is, we know why the certifications have been delayed from these very same counties where we have these large, unexplained shifts toward the other campaign. If the purpose here is delay and endless wrangling and re-count after re-count after re-count, that game can be played, but that's not the way - that's not the road we ought to go down, that's what I'm saying. (CROSSTALK) BAKER: Well, wait a minute. QUESTION: Secretary Baker, the reason some of those ballots were not counted on Election Day and again on the re-count is because there was no hole punched. There are reports that some ballots have pencil markings. Some voters were a little confused and circled the candidate's name rather than do a hole punch. Does the Bush campaign believe those votes should not be counted? BAKER: Well, let me refer you to the lawyer, the Florida lawyers on that. If the law of Florida is that in order to vote a machine ballot you have to punch a hole, and that isn't done, then those votes are not going to be counted. That's all I can tell you. Yes? One more question. Right here. QUESTION: Mr. Secretary? BAKER: Yes? QUESTION: Is Governor Bush concerned that because of the slim margin and there are so many questions about this vote that he might be seen as not waiting long enough to ensure that all Americans - Floridians have voted and that their votes are counted? BAKER: Well, all Floridians have voted and their votes have not only been counted, they've been counted twice, except for the overseas ballot. That's, I think, beyond dispute. Nobody's going to dispute that. Double-marked ballots haven't been counted, but there's no jurisdiction in the United States where we count double-marked ballots. Thank you very much.
the truth
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:05:09 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi Mary, don't mind 'Toine. He just misses Charlie. Republicans are hard at work in other states now trying to overturn their elections. Having Baker on stage and trying to portray him as a mediator is like letting a fox loose in the henhouse.........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:04:27 (EST)
My two cents are: LOL, toine. //I'm not in Florida...but the facts are there were those who did need help. :) Its clear that Bush did not get those votes that were meant for Gore and Gore may have won Florida. Can't take back the call.....but dont ignore the voters wish once Bush is in office. He did not have a clean victory...there is a shadow over his win.
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:03:34 (EST)
My two cents are: stealing schmealing
befuddled codger
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:03:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey, Mary. Pay no attention to 'Toine, he's a blithering idiot.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:00:23 (EST)
My two cents are: Thats right,history does not lie.In 1876 Rutherford B. Hayeswon won by one electoral after a disputed electoral process that saw the Election of Democrat Samuel Tilden overturned in 3 southern states, one of which was Fla who had a republican election board overturn his narrow lead and give the Presidency to Hayes. So Florida has experience in stealing Presidential Elections from Democrats...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:59:41 (EST)
My two cents are: sounds like you need some serious help, Mary.
someone who can help figger out which hole to poke
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:58:15 (EST)
My two cents are: aounds like you need some serious help, Mary.
someone who can help figger out which hole to poke
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:58:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Second Name on Ballot;Third hole to punch; Number 5; say what? Why not: Second name, Second hole, Number 2? Confused? Follow arrow. Simple!Right? Except, when lined up on voting apparatus,arrow is not in sync with third hole. 19,000 voter ballots invalid. Buchanan gets over 3000. These do not include the voters who received help, new ballots,or voted after memo was sent to polls alerting polling personnel of confusion.
Mary
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:55:39 (EST)
My two cents are: "The gap is narrowing in New Mexico's presidential contest. The latest tallies show Democratic candidate Al Gore leading Republican George Bush by 164 votes. The latest vote totals come after the bulk of 38-thousand votes in Bernalillo County were tallied and released today. Another 252 unaccounted-for ballots and up to 16-hundred ballots that need to be hand-counted in the county haven't yet been added into the tally." http://www.krqe.com/Global/story.asp?S=172931&nav=0RXa0Q5b
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:54:25 (EST)
My two cents are: How do you figure, Dems work at the post office? They're always trying to shoot each other and themselves, which means they're gun nuts, which means they're Republicans.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:54:08 (EST)
My two cents are: We know. History does not lie.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:48:47 (EST)
My two cents are: You wish.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:38:36 (EST)
My two cents are: Easy Glint: Democrats work at the post office. Democrats are criminals. There is massive voter fraud waiting to be uncovered involving Democrats.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:37:01 (EST)
My two cents are: ABC: Voter News Service has withdrawn its call of New Mexico for Gore, declaring it too close to call. Looks like it may be swinging to Bush!
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:35:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Second-graders have no problem with butterfly ballot LEESBURG, Ga. (AP) _ That so-called butterfly ballot may have been confusing to the grown-ups in Florida, but some second-graders here made it look like child"s play. School psychologist Ron McGee asked the 8-year-olds at Lee County Elementary to vote for their favorite Disney character, using a ballot similar to the one that has caused controversy in Florida"s Palm Beach County. ..... Mickey Mouse and Goofy tied for the top spot.
proof that the stupidest people in america are democrats <lower the voting age to 8>
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:32:52 (EST)
My two cents are: What I'm wondering is who did the alleged forger of Todd Vinson's absentee ballot vote for in the presidential race and what happened to the second absentee ballot that he requested?
Glint
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:29:06 (EST)
My two cents are: munch munch munch Munch MUnch MUNch MUNCh MUNCH MUNCH! MUNCH!! *MUNCH*!! *M*U*N*C*H*!! *M*U*N*C*H*!!!
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:26:04 (EST)
My two cents ariminal probe into potentially widespread voter fraud that could further muddy a presidential election whose outcome hinges on several thousand votes in Florida. �.. The State Attorney's Office is leading an investigation into whether the forged ballot is part of a much broader scheme to redirect mailed ballots to someone who filled them out and forged the voter's signature. �.. ``I agree there may well be more than just this one,'' said Assistant State Attorney Russ Edgar, who is heading the investigation. ``That's what I'm thinking right now.'' �� . Late Wednesday, Escambia County elections officials discovered what appears to be a second forged absentee ballot that also has been handed over to state prosecutors. �� The state investigation was prompted by a complaint from Todd Vinson, a law clerk in Miami who is a registered Pensacola voter. Vinson, state investigators and others involved outline this series of events: �� On Oct. 10, Vinson requested the Escambia County Supervisor of Elections to mail an absentee ballot to his Miami apartment. After it failed to arrive, he requested a second ballot on Oct. 24. >It, too, disappeared. Vinson, 28, said he complained to his father, U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson, last Thursday. That morning, the elder Vinson called Jones. �.. Jones' office reviewed all the absentee ballots and discovered a ballot with Todd Vinson's name on it. When Jones compared the signature on the ballot to the signature on Vinson's voter registration card, the two did not match. ... Jones faxed a copy of the signature to Todd Vinson. ``It was clearly forged,'' he said. ``Somebody definitely got hold of it and sent it back in. The question is where did they get it, and my speculation was that it happened somewhere in the post office. It made it down here to Miami, but it never made it to me.'' ...... Jones sent a third ballot to Vinson via next-day mail that arrived in time for Vinson to cast a ballot for Bush. Jones then contacted the State Attorney's Office, U.S. Attorney Mike Patterson and the Florida Division of Elections. Edgar said the signed witness required for all absentee ballots listed a fictitious address. ... State Attorney Curtis Golden said that if the Postal Service was involved, his office might turn the investigation over to federal law enforcement officials.
fucking democrats!
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:20:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush is wihin 60,000 votes of popular vote, and the lead is "shrinking rapidly".
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:08:51 (EST)
My two cents are: He's not the only one suing, though.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:08:22 (EST)
My two cents are: (CNSNews.com) - Andre Fladell, the Palm Beach County, Fla., resident who is a plaintiff in a lawsuit seeking a new presidential vote in his county because of an allegedly confusing ballot, is a long-time Democratic operative in the area who advised Democratic Senator-elect Bill Nelson of Florida.
Another Dirty Democrat Trickster Exposed
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:04:52 (EST)
My two cents are: ELECTION NEWS By John Breneman 11/10/00 Having invented the electoral college when he was a student at Harvard, Vice President Al Gore says he is confident he will win the dramatic Florida recount that will decide the 2000 presidential race. However, Republican Gov. George W. Bush says he, too, is certain that he will prevail, thus giving him enough "electrical votes" to become the next president of the United States.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:04:33 (EST)
My two cents are: Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, November 10, 2000; 12:50 PM AUSTIN, Texas Gov. George W. Bush continued to portray himself as president-elect-in-waiting today, summoning cameras for a meeting he plans with his economic and foreign-policy advisers. With campaign aides contending that the still-uncertified recount in Florida has confirmed his victory, Bush proceeded with planning his transition to the White House even as Vice President Gore's operatives continued to insist that the election is not over. Bush met at the governor's mansion with his running mate, Richard B. Cheney, who would direct the transition. In addition, he is getting regular updates from Florida and is meeting with state officials.
Give 'em all Hell, W!
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:00:42 (EST)
My two cents are: wHAT AN IDIOT, jEB REMOVED HIMSELF FROM THE PROCESS. rEPUBLICANS ARE HONEST. dEMOCRATS ARE NOT.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:59:39 (EST)
My two cents are: Sen.-elect Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., held a postelection news conference and said she intends to fulfill her public duties as first lady while preparing to become a member of Congress. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Miss., greeted her election tartly. ``I tell you one thing, when this Hillary gets to the Senate - if she does, maybe lightning will strike and she won't - she will be one of 100 and we won't let her forget it,'' he said.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:58:41 (EST)
My two cents are: You know, Jeb's been awfully quiet about this thing.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:50:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, let me be the first to congratulate President B. Simpson, and to wish him a productive 4 years in office. Lord knows he needs all the wishes and prayers he can get.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:48:21 (EST)
My two cents are: The Weed is getting a speech ready accepting the Presidency........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:44:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Perhaps you were created in the lab of an evil scientist a la Frankenstein, you freak.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:39:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Lord knows, you probably weren't even born through one. They probably hatched you in the lab, you test tube baby.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:36:27 (EST)
My two cents are: I know, since you think that vaginas, like all things female, are icky and gross, that you would think that calling me a twat would be an insult, but since I have one, it isn't.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:34:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Believe what you want, 'Toine. You're a felon anyway, so your vote doesn't count. The point was that the retchies can't talk because they would do the same thing if they were in this position.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:33:17 (EST)
My two cents are: pat b. thinks its funny 'cause he knows there's no way gore'll ever get those votes back.
good one, pat! <bwaaaaaaaaahaha>
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:32:35 (EST)
My two cents are: Look, 'twatever, just shut up. The only reason, the ONLY reason, why dumbocRATS nullified their own jury members in fornigate is because it benefited their boy. That's why they wanted to stonewall and challenge each move in the investigation that was after all requested by Janet Reno. Had the shoe been on the other foot, the dumbocRATS would have summoned the ghost of deep throat to pry his keister out of the oval office.
sowhatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:30:43 (EST)
My two cents are: "When I took one look at that ballot on Election Night ... it's very easy for me to see how someone could have voted for me in the belief they voted for Al Gore."---Pat Buchanan
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:20:19 (EST)
My two cents are: No, but one of them had a sign saying, "HI 'Toine, baby, its me,Charlie, you sweet thing."
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:18:04 (EST)
My two cents are: "Protesters arrested outside The Bush Palace in Austin. Anonymous."
was any of them wearing freshly ironed dockers.and a banlon shirt and clutching an old faded picture of a yellow dog?
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:16:21 (EST)
My two cents are: Look, 'Toine, just shut up. The only reason, the ONLY reason, why retchies aren't beefing about this sham of an election is because it benefits their boy. That's why they want to challenge the votes elsewhere. Had the shoe been on the other foot, the retchies would fight this to the death.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:14:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore has gone ahead of the Weed in Oregon by some 2500 votes with 96% of the vote in. This is all mail in voting. Nh is very close and Gore might still win it. This totals 11 electoral votes that would put Gore over the top without FLA.............John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:14:32 (EST)
My two cents are: The fact of the matter is that dumbocRATS only want investigation if it's something from which they can benefit. They claim that it's necessary to spend tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to investigate this election, as if it were shady or dishonest yet, it wasn't wrong to whitewash the lies and coverup of the pervert Bill Clinton.
sowhatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 15:13:04 (EST)
My two cents are: I wish I did know voodoo, 'Toine. I'd have given you the supernatural ass whippin of your life by now.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:57:13 (EST)
My two cents are: So, did they end up having that victory party in Austin yesterday?
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:49:18 (EST)
My two cents are: President WEED, the bought and paid for candidate of the retchies will have a tumultous 4 years in Wash. He has no idea what is facing him when he tries to reduce Pete's taxes......John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:47:19 (EST)
My two cents are: Protesters arrested outside The Bush Palace in Austin.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:44:12 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore probably isn't going to fight this thing tooth and nail. If the re-vote numbers are inapplicable, and Bush "won" Florida, then that's how it'll be. He can come back strong in 2004. The only problem I have with that is, how much havoc will President B. Simpson wreak between now and then?
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:42:16 (EST)
My two cents are: The fact of the matter is that the retchies only want investigation if it's something from which they can benefit. They claim that it's wrong to investigate this shady election, yet, it wasn't wrong to spend tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to find out Bill Clinton got a blow job.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:39:17 (EST)
My two cents are: "Listen Al, a battle over the vote recount could take more than a year and a half during which time the legitimacy of Bush's election would be in question. That would be devastating to America's foreign relations. And what if you demanded a recount and it turned out that, despite any hint of vote fraud, Bush had still won? Charges of 'sore loser' would follow you through history and remove any possibility of a further political career."
gore tosses and turns while haunting dreams of nixon disturb his sleep
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:38:14 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, the certified numbers are with 53 of 67 counties reporting. The Associated Press numbers had Bush up by less than 300 with 66 of 67 counties reporting.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:37:48 (EST)
My two cents are: A.P. recount tally: These are the latest unofficial results of the Florida recount as reported to the Associated Press by county election supervisors, and may not have been formally submitted to the Florida Division of Elections for certification. As a result, the Associated Press figures may not match those of the Florida Division of Elections: Bush 2,909,135, Gore 2,907,351 Bush wins by 1457.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:32:45 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore is a lame duck and looking lamer by the minute.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:22:01 (EST)
My two cents are: Impeach Gore!
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:12:22 (EST)
My two cents are: WABC radio New York top of the hour news: Gore lead in New Mexico has shrunk to 130 votes. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
262 bALLOTS MISSING
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:05:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Jack Quinn's report that the 19,000 double punched ballots were discards, and not actually cast. These would have been exchanged by voters and replaced by an actual ballot that was properly cast. All the discussion of whether the will of 19,000 (mostly Gore-supporting) voters would be thwarted appears to be misguided
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:03:04 (EST)
My two cents are: In "Electoral College Vote Need Not Include Florida" Adam (the as*hole) Clymer sends signals to dirty trickster Democrats telling them to keep the Florida courts tied up in technicalities in order to prevent the state's electoral college members from voting on Dec. 18: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/10/politics/10DATE.html (registration required)
Glint <hi Coppertone, Pete>
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:01:33 (EST)
My two cents are: By the way, the 19,000 bad ballots included those that were turned in by voters that knew they made a mistake and got a new ballot and voted again.
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 14:00:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Florida Department of State Division of Elections November 7, 2000 General Election Unofficial and Preliminary Results The current results reflect the last recount results provided to the Division of Elections from the Supervisors of Elections in Florida. These results are �unofficial.� There are also hand counts being conducted in some Florida counties at this time. These results are not �official� until all 67 counties have certified their results to the Division of Elections. The deadline for official certification is November 14, 2000. In addition, overseas absentee ballots postmarked no later than November 7th and received within 10 days (November 17th) from the date of the election will also be counted and certified to the Division of Elections. Bush - 2,910,074 Gore - 2,909,114 Nader - 97,416 Buchanan - 17,465 Browne - 16,396 The break is currently Bush by 960.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:58:31 (EST)
My two cents are: Bush now up by over 900 in latest Florida official site count: http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/Report.asp?Date=001107
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:57:02 (EST)
My two cents are: If Bush gets to play president, the only advice I have is: SELL! SELL! SELL!
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:55:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Thats right, and she has just completed a doll in your likeness. The first thing you feel will be a pain in your left ear when she twists it.....John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:48:41 (EST)
My two cents are: No, F;oroda law only calls for the automatic recount. We had that and Bush won again. A separate hand count should be done in all counties, not just Dem counties. Otherwise, it is potentially slanted to Dems. This could have a domino effect across the country. But it just proves that Democrats never do anything for the good of the country as a whole. They do it only for themselcves and their agenda. In the past in similarly close elections, Repubs have conceded for the good of the country. Democrats are not interested in the good of the country as a whole. That is why they should never ever be allowed to hold any position of power in this country.
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:46:52 (EST)
My two cents are: "Oh, they're threatening lawsuits if Gore actually has the balls to stand up to their trickery? Fuck 'em. It's ON. Whatever - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:06:55 (EST)"
what trickery? you know about voodoo too?
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:41:34 (EST)
My two cents are: That would stand to reason, if any of the Republican counties had complained, filed suit or protested. If they try it now, they just look like they're trying to jump on the bandwagon.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:37:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, I must say, if they are going to hand count the Democrat districts, then they need to recount the Republican Counties. This is because partially punched ballots will be reviewed to determine the intent of the voter. Focusing only on these Dem strongholds is unfair, unless all votes in all counties are recounted by hand. Leave it up to Democrats to try to tear apart our country. It is time for Gore to concede.
Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:36:39 (EST)
My two cents are: That was pretty good, 'Toine. I'm impressed, kind of.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:34:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Jon Stewart is hilarious, by the way. I never watch "The Daily Show" either. I should start.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:33:31 (EST)
My two cents are: "Hello, on behalf of Al Gore it is a privilege to be here with you today here in Palm Beach at the Ernest Hemmingway Memorial Soup Kitchen. Now, we have plenty more cold Coors 'silver bullets' up here so just feel free to come on up and help yourselves. Each of our busses have wide asiles for you to relieve yourselves in so go ahead and drink up. Now when we get to the place where you're going to vote I want you to remember one thing. And that is you need to punch the second hole down on your election ballots, O.K.? Now remember, that's the second hole down. Second hole down. Got That? Alright then, let's head out. All busses are going to the same place so you can pick whichever bus you want. The busses are plainly labeled 'REGULAR' and 'MENTHOL'."
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:33:22 (EST)
My two cents are: I agree with you, Whatever, email MsNBC , maybe they will...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:30:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Baker just threw it down to the democrats. So, in a little while the other guy, Christopher will be on to answer him.........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:29:27 (EST)
My two cents are: They need to start calling this "Indecision 2000" like Comedy Central.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:28:36 (EST)
My two cents are: Decision 2000 is what MSNBC is calling this election and thats the station I watch most of the time so Its Decision 2000 for me, thank you..........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:26:29 (EST)
My two cents are: That's going to result in a bunch of pissed-off pubbies. I mean, they all knew he was lightweight to begin with, but they didn't care, because they figured they could make big bucks on Wall Street. God forbid, Shrubbie have to be extorted into a tax hike. They'll probably burn him at the stake. Best believe he'll be in the closet downing that bottle of JD, if that happens.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:10:08 (EST)
My two cents are: To fuck with social security you have to get sixty votes in the Senate. There aren't sixty votes to fuck with social security in the Senate. Bush can try to appoint judges subject to approval, he can put his spin on the top of the bureaucracy, he can veto bills if the congress passes any, and he can try to deliver for the Christian Coalition, the gun nuts, and the disgruntled impeachment loon-balls. He can also affect foreign policy, and appoint his boys to the top military slots, but with luck that won't have any lasting bad effects, and will put the rest of the world on its toes after they figure out that he's dangerously lightweight.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 13:06:20 (EST)
My two cents are: How do you figure? That's why he was "elected," because folks want to make big bucks on Wall Street.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:59:07 (EST)
My two cents are: No matter which way you look at it, the next four years are going to be a cluster fuck. The only thing to do as a good American is bow the head down and tote the man's bale for a few years. The promised land is on the other side of the river.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:51:01 (EST)
My two cents are: Isn't going, that the key.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:48:47 (EST)
My two cents are: This thing is pretty air-tight, Whatever. Bush is going to get any chances to fuck with social security.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:47:49 (EST)
My two cents are: No offense, John, but this is the 2000 presidential election, not Decision 2000. Decision 2000 is an advertising term designed to promote the market-oriented motives of the television networks. It's like calling an Olympic team Team America.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:46:13 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, but how much more will the economy tank with everyone's Social Security money floating around Wall Street, and Jo Bob Henry Jed thinking he's Solomon Smith Barney?
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:45:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Overseas they have big headlines all about America and our inability to solve this puzzle. Decision 2000 is running overtime by about 3 days now and it ain't going to be over until next Fri at least...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:32:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Give old man Bush a break. Even if he wasn't honorable, he seemed to have a distaste for the things he had to do to try to get elected.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:32:24 (EST)
My two cents are: Even if W. doesn't faint, the economy is still going to tank in the next four years. It would probably tank under a Democrat-- there are just too many Petes out there trading inflated e-shares, and most people who know a little about it agree that the business cycle still comes around. Neither is Bush going to unite anyone, and Gore couldn't either. Bush will manage to unite a lot more people against him and against his fanatic friends. He will be almost certainly be a pitiable figure, much worse than his old man, because he is without substance, talent, experience, or nerve. If he turns out to have something in him, the only way it can express itself is if he serves as an interim president.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:28:44 (EST)
My two cents are: I forgot the Lodges. At least they were honorable............John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:26:58 (EST)
My two cents are: My boy told me on Tuesday that he wasn't going to vote. He fell asleep on his couch, and had a dream in which Shrubbie was giving his acceptance speech. He woke up in a cold sweat, grabbed his clothes and his keys, and voted. He said it was a nightmare. Now, the nightmare's becoming true? Lord. Well, it's not totally true, because we all know damn well Shrubbie didn't win this legitimately.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:24:03 (EST)
My two cents are: Wasn't Henry Cabot Lodge from Mass? Connecticut?
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:22:38 (EST)
My two cents are: I guess we'll have to wait another 4 years to see if McCain would have a good chance of snagging the Republican nomination. He will if Shrubbie doesn't get into office, but if he does, it hinges on Shrubbie's performance. I hope this isn't going to be like the debates, where people swear Shrubbie did a good job because he didn't faint.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:21:38 (EST)
My two cents are: A lot of people screw up their ballots every time. I once punched the hole for Dianne Feinstein even though she was running on a capital punishment platform, and she got elected. If Gore has any brains he should back off and calm these people down in a little bit. The Republicans deserve a minority presidency. In the long run it's for the best.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:20:40 (EST)
My two cents are: Mc Cain would have won legitimatedly(sp)......John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:19:24 (EST)
My two cents are: I'm sorry, I meant bluebloods, but Democrat bluebloods. Mass has been pretty Democratic for a hellified long time. I think the last time we didn't go Democrat was the 1930s.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:16:20 (EST)
My two cents are: The Bushes are born and bred New Englanders Whatever, For decades the politicians in Mass were Bluebloods. Prescott Bush was a Sen from Conn. They all went to Andover or Amherst. Yale, Harvard, The whole ball of wax things for the rich in New England...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:13:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore's name was third on the ballot Curt for your information. Buchanan should have been under him or at least had the punchout button to the right of his name. It is clearly to the left. This is an illegal ballot used in just this one county that had some 23,000 ballots either marked wrong or marked for the Nazi Buchanan...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:09:48 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh, they're threatening lawsuits if Gore actually has the balls to stand up to their trickery? Fuck 'em. It's ON. This is what I meant, about backing down to Shrubbie. You just can't do it, in all good conscience.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:06:55 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning, Glint. How are you doing today? Didn't say morning to you either, papi. :-)
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:05:19 (EST)
My two cents are: Sorry, forgot to sign that one. The retchies are threatening lawsuits all over the place if Gore goes fwd with his lawsuit in Fla. So they are throwing down the gauntlet for a big battle. Now I wiuld tell Gore, take up the gauntlet and slap them alongside the head with it. If they want war,lets give it to them...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:05:03 (EST)
My two cents are: 'Toine understands what the impeachment hoax was about. Blow job. Bad.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:03:44 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning. "....Fla. state law says Gore's name must be second on the ballot, it was third..." - Anonymous@04:32:27. There's a Florida law with Al Gore's name in it? Where? Anyway, it looks to me like his name was second, right under Bush's, but third if you count Dick Cheney. Is that what's illegal about it, having Cheney's name under Bush's name instead of Al Gore? ;-) "That law also says you must mark to the right of the candidate for whom you are voting, but that was impossible with this ballot." You're looking on the wrong page. That law covers paper ballots only. You need to look at the law for electronic vote tabulation. Stupid issues, both.
Glint
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:03:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Actually, I think McCain could have won this one.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:02:44 (EST)
My two cents are: The thing is, anon, that bluebloods like Bush don't rule New England. With the exception of New Hampshire, New England is mostly Democrats. Besides, I thought the Bushes were southerners.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:02:04 (EST)
My two cents are: You people are too conspiracy-minded. Who the hell else do you think the Republicans had to run? Senator McCain? My guess is the Poppy is fairly mortified by all this, including the impeachment scam, where you never saw him jumping in with any comment at all except for saying that private affairs should be left alone.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 12:01:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Oh yeah, he was already a base-head. My b.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:58:00 (EST)
My two cents are: The blow job wasn't the hokey part, 'Toine.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:56:49 (EST)
My two cents are: He's in this because for 8 years he had to listen to his father George Herbert Walker "Wimpy" Bush, plead and cajole and rant and rave about how he had lost the election to Clinton and it wasn't fair that a Blueblood like him, from an old New England family , a Hero in WW2 should have to lose to a red Neck, peckerwood, a nobody from a backward state like Arkansas. It was up to his sons to redeem the family name in the great tradition of New England where the Bluebloods always ruled, Guys like Saltonstall and Emery,Hughes and yes, Bush. So get your asses out there and stop fooling around with girls and cocaine and redeem our name. We have to get back to the top.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:56:20 (EST)
My two cents are: The thing is, though, that Shrubbie will never get that much sleep. You've all seen how much Clinton's aged in 8 years. He looked young and vibrant back when he was playing the sax on "The Arsenio Hall Show." Now, he's old and gray. Shrubbie can't possibly get that much sleep, even with all the advisors in the world. Knowing his addictive personality, I'd be surprised if he doesn't come out of this a base-head.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:55:24 (EST)
My two cents are: "...for example impeaching Clinton based on a hokey entrapment engineered for purely political purposes..... Anonymous. - Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:07:14 (EST)"
Hi Monica, Ken. O.K. now, once you're in the O. office we would like you to get down on your knees and 'ucksay' the 'residentspay' 'ticksay'. And it's really important that you make sure to get a dab or two of 'umcay' your 'ressday'. Any Quesions? <the entrapment conspiracy unfolds>
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:54:48 (EST)
My two cents are: So, on the lighter side of the news, in this building, the only place to smoke is outside, on the lawn, facing this little inlet of the Atlantic. They paved over a little part of it, so you don't have to step in any duck shit and mess up your shoes. This inlet is protected by the EPA, because all these ducks and geese live there, and they're forever shitting all over the place. Anyway, you know some of these scumbags can't even wait until they're outside to start smoking? I saw them yesterday, coming out of the building, and their cigarettes are half-smoked, because they don't want to go through the trouble of having to light their cigarettes with the wind blowing. They're all hocking up their lungs and stuff. I feel like smacking all of them.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:53:02 (EST)
My two cents are: Dumb people are often blessed with an obliviousness to pressure. As long as Little George gets his eight hours, he seems to feel pretty good.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:50:16 (EST)
My two cents are: It's just a matter of time.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:48:22 (EST)
My two cents are: Dude, with all the pressure Bartie is about to be under, you know he's going to be in the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Closet taking a bottle of Jack Daniels to the head.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:47:03 (EST)
My two cents are: in Palm Beach.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:45:48 (EST)
My two cents are: For Bush, it will probably rise no higher than irregularitygate.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:45:25 (EST)
My two cents are: I just can't believe we sat up here and allowed Bart Simpson to steal an election. I saw on CNN last night, a woman on the picket lines ni Palm Beach, saying "Bush is a cheater," to the tune of "nyaah nyah nyah nyah nyaah." I gave her a standing ovation.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:45:18 (EST)
My two cents are: 'Toine, an easy way to remember how to spell medicine is to think of the word "medical", which you probably don't spell "medecal." You learn enough of these little tricks and you will become sub-literate.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:42:16 (EST)
My two cents are: So, I wonder in what scandals President Shrub/Bart Simpson will embroil himself. Saucegate? Dumbassgate? We're already in VoterFraudgate.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:41:25 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore could also do some major damage in the current climate, unfortunately. It's a tough one, but he needs to back off after the overseas vote comes in. Three or four hundred votes is tough but it's just as tough the other way, so there's no real moral authority on either side of the argument. If Bush gets in and doesn't fuck himself over, it will be because he manages to do it right. He can do it right by serving as a sort of interim regent, a place-holder for a legitimate president in 2004, and try to let things calm down in the meantime. Since he doesn't appear to care much for politics and is in this only because he thinks his friends deserve a tax break, he could conceivably pull it off.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:39:19 (EST)
My two cents are: "Hello, it's great to be here at the Father Jacob Alzheimer's Disease Center here in beautiful sunny Palm Beach. I bring greetings from all of your ungrateful children back in New York. Let me just start by saying that there is a man named George Bush who wants to take away your precious medecine. Without your daily medecine, do you know what you'd be? You'd be dead! A stiff. An undertaker's meal ticket. But there is a man who can save you if you vote for him today. His name is Al Gore, but the name is not important. Now, the orderlies will be here in a few minutes with the busses to go to the polling station. So in the time that is left let me tell you what to do, and please try and remember. Al Gore is the second name down on the ballot, so just poke the second hole down on the ballot -- that's it! Simple as that. Now remember, it's the second hole down. Second hole down. That's the second hole down from the top -- one, two -- second hole down."
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:38:29 (EST)
My two cents are: "Hello, it is my pleasure to be here today at the St. Simon Gospel Church here in beautiful Palm Beach. Let me just get right to the point. If George Bush gets elected president anyone of you -- or all of you -- are at risk of being either dragged to death behind a truck or killed by lethal injection in a Texas jail. Al Gore does not want that to happen so you need to go vote on Tuesday. It's all very simple really. Al Gore's name will be the second name down, so just poke the second hole down on the ballot -- that's it! Simple as that. Now remember, it's the second hole down. Second hole down. Now everybody. SECOND HOLE DOWN!"
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:38:11 (EST)
My two cents are: You know, I really hear you guys. Maybe it would be best. I'd love to see the results of the re-vote, even if they're not applicable.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:37:58 (EST)
My two cents are: The other thing is that I'm not so sure that Shrubbie did come as close as they claim he has. I bet you, with all the absentee and nullified votes, that Gore did win this election. You're right, though, Gore would have a tough time of things if he were to win.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:36:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore will enhance himself in the eyes of the electorate if he pulls back from making a foolish court case of this. Let the Weed take over and watch him wreck the economy with his Reagan mimicking of a huge tax cut and billions spent on the military, all leading to more huge deficits. In 2004 these retchies are going to be mighty pissed at the inept leader they stuck us with. For all time in America the people will know Gore really won Fla and the Presidency in the year 2000 and a half-wit in the fashion of their other leader Reagan was put in power thru a quirk in one county in Fla, the only county in Fla that used a particular ballot designed to aid but only hindered, a ballot that proved to be, in reality, illegal in Fla where by law the punch out should be to the right of the names of the candidates. So let the Weed take over ,Gore and come back in 2004...........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:34:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, he deserves it almost as much as anyone else, at least.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:33:45 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, I hear that. However; I'm not necessarily sure that Shrubbie will be rendered null and void if he were to win this election. I'm worried that Shrubbie may actually have a chance to get in there and do some major damage.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:33:42 (EST)
My two cents are: Well, certainly the Republicans are guilty of attempting to delegitimize the United States government, most obviously with the Starr/impeachment scams, and this has created or at least permits the current situation. The deal here is that this is very serious, and it seems to me that the best course is to permit the Republicans to attempt to function as an illigitimate government for four years and then try to get things on a more or less even course. Almost half the voters in the country think they want Bush for president, and he at least came close in Florida, so he deserves it as much as anyone else.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:32:10 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, we didn't get germed. However; I would think it would stand to reason that Saddam just might want to get even with the guy whose father bitch slapped him on his own turf. It doesn't help that the whole world knows Shrubbie's incompetent, either.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:25:41 (EST)
My two cents are: Pat Buchanan himself said it on both CNN and "Today," that he knows that quite a few of the votes that went to him in Palm Beach should have gone to Gore. Even his Nazi ass can admit that.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:23:56 (EST)
My two cents are: There have been many horse's asses in that particular driver's seat. We did eight years of Reagan and didn't get germed, so we should be able to handle four years of W. This kid wants to be in the Oval Office Club, and he came pretty close to getting elected so we might as well let him have it. His dad vouches for his behavior.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:22:55 (EST)
My two cents are: You know what burns me the most? One of the guys on "Larry King Live" said it last night. These retchies spent how many tens of millions of dollars investigating some land deal on Arkansas and to find out whether or not Clinton received a blow job, yet, this sham of an election is all good to them? That's bullshit. Gore should fight this, tooth and nail. If it ends up that Shrubbie's the rightful leader, then so be it, but that should be clearly and fairly determined.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:22:05 (EST)
My two cents are: Right, anonymous, Gore is going to make himself into a footnote if he supports legal action. He has no legal right to be elected president, and decorum requires that he keep his nose out of a confused voter's right to have her vote counted. If he sues, the only thing he can accomplish is to further cement Bush's lack of legitimacy, and that's already going to be powerful enough. If he won, he would only be making himself illigitimate, and that's not much of an aid to ydog's list. The fear is that Bush will be getting a sort of positive aura with the office, which is true to an extent, but is just part of the tough shit of life and will probably dissolve quickly. Just play this out long enough to make it clear that he would have won in Florida without the confusion, and then step back.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:12:39 (EST)
My two cents are: According to the AP results, with 66 out of 67 counties reporting, Shrubbie's up by less than 300. Absentee ballots could swing it either way.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:10:57 (EST)
My two cents are: The thing is, although between filibustering, voting retchies out of office and whatnot whatnot, we still don't want a horse's ass in the driver's seat. What if Saddam busts out the germs? I can see Shrubbie crying and cowering in a corner.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:09:38 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore's probably going to court, because I'm sure he tried to call Shrubbie up and congratulate him, and Shrubbie gave him the spoiled-brat snub. I'd want to annihilate Shrubbie if I were Gore, too.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:07:44 (EST)
My two cents are: I don't even think the lawsuits are in Gore's hands anymore. The people themselves have filed suit. Not to mention, I thought it was in the hands of the Democratic Party now.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:06:11 (EST)
My two cents are: Morning. YD, your 07:16:58 was brilliant, as usual. I heard on CNN that they are doing a re-vote on Saturday, results supposed to be in on Monday. Tuesday is when the results have to be certified by Florida law. Glad we don't have to go a'protesting to get a re-vote. It was going to rain on Saturday.
Whatever
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:04:46 (EST)
My two cents are: All of those Bush consequences sound bad, sure, but I think we flushed no more than four years down the shitter, with pretty good odds that the loon-balls will clean themselves mostly out of government by the end. Do you get to filibuster approval of a supreme court justice? If so, that takes care of pretty much the only long-lasting harm that Bush could do. The existing bureaucracy takes more than four years to clean up, so no real changes there. Sure, we'll lose moral authority internationally, but the Europeans are already taking care of the Balkans, and we already chunked Africa, Clinton in particular having done some pretty bleak dealings in Sierra Leone and Liberia. Gore will fuck himself up if he goes to court. I suppose that is OK, because it leaves it wide open for Hillary.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 11:02:53 (EST)
My two cents are: There better be a lot of Fla residents over in Israel who voted by absentee ballot if Gore expects to come out on top. Otherwise ,he should just forget about it and wait for 2004 while building a stronger base around the country,especially in Tenn.........John�
J
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 09:57:58 (EST)
My two cents are: "Your honor, you can plainly see see the look of confusion on the face of my elderly client in this photograph as she is trying to figure out how to vote using the Palm Beach ballot." - Clymer D. Crat, esq. http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/tropical/tcptd038.jpg
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 09:56:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Sounds like the coals aren't hot enough to sear the meat..
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 09:51:54 (EST)
My two cents are: Hi, Y. Yeah, I saw that stuff by big Bush about Junior. It was really odd. Seems like he's figured out his son and his son's ilk are behaving dishonorably. Loved that Al Haig-like "I am in control" imitation by the Reptile Cheney when they tried to seize power, though.//Pubbie spinmeisters are already spewing their usual vitriol on the airwaves, with an antisemitic antieldlerly spin. I hope the overseas ballots come in for Gore. Then they'll be hoist on their own petard. Later.
E
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 09:31:14 (EST)
My two cents are: You know, for all bushies Ivy League education, life of privilige etc., there remains something about the guy that is just increadibly vulgar. Not necessarily base or obscene, but some sort of vulgar countenance reminiscent of Val the Impaler or something. Even elder bush telegraphed this when asked about the election last night at the whitehouse gala. Elder spluttered endlessly about how proud he was of "bushies behavior" over and over, "really pleased with his "behavior". A father being "pleased with his 54 year-old son's "behavior" is somehow discordonant, like he expected a tantrum that has been apparently been kept inside the austin mansion somehow.//Morning yall, later.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 07:38:04 (EST)
My two cents are: Gotta say I loved seeing the bash for year 200 at the white house. I suppose if bushie were president elect he could have attended. Beautiful snub.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 07:32:00 (EST)
My two cents are: "Saying it was a matter of critical public importance, Volusia County�s Elections Canvassing Board unanimously agreed Thursday to take the extraordinary step of manually counting the ballots cast Tuesday in the race for President. The laborious process of counting all 184,018 ballots is likely to begin Saturday morning. The count, which will be conducted under the supervision of the Canvassing Board with witnesses from both major political parties, is expected to take until Tuesday to be completed.Volusia voters supported Vice president Al Gore over Governor George Bush by a margin of 97,063 to 82,214. The outcome was verified Wednesday evening when the Canvassing Board completed an automatic recount of the votes The State Executive Committee of the Florida Democratic Party made the request for a manual recount of the ballots late Thursday afternoon. "During the balloting process, the subsequent tabulation of ballots, and the statutorily required recount, numerous problems transpired which call into question the accuracy and the veracity of Volusia County�s returns for the Offices of President and Vice-President of the United States," states the written request for a manual recount. The Republican Party objected to the request. Party representatives said the ballots already had been recounted and in the interest of public "finality" the time-consuming manual recount request should not be granted.Volusia County, Florida is located 60 miles northeast of Orlando. It has a permanent population of approximately 430,000. Its largest city is Daytona Beach. There are 260,752 registered voters, 43 percent Democrats and 38 percent Republicans." --Volusia County, 11/9/00.....Democracy in action and the bush camp can't stand it.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 07:29:19 (EST)
My two cents are: Maybe it's sour-graping anon, maybe it's denial, I'd probably put it more in the light of rationalization as I try to deal with some of my fears. A fear that we will see a continued US prison build-up with ever increasing jailing of people for more and more minor and victimless crimes and an expansion and extension of capital punishment coupled with an expansion of the private prison system to line wall street's pockets; a fear that the greatest nation on earth will sit on its hands through the next round of "ethnic cleansing" wherever it pops up because those lives aren't financially important to us; a fear that women will lose the right to choose and their bodies will be regulated by the government; a fear that we will soon have a national religion and national language and that the government will control our minds and censor our thoughts; a fear that we will see a swift erosion of humanitarian aid in favor of a bunch of toy missiles giving vent to starvation and disease woldwide and a few more golden beach toys on the cliffs of Rhode Island; a fear that Aids will become "god's judgement and all "non-profitable" research will stop; that poverty will become a personal, and even a genetic trait; a fear that child labor will become an "essential step for developing countries"; a fear that we will see a wholesaling of our environment to capital interests; and that basically we have probably just flushed the future of the planet down the shitter.
ydog
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 07:16:58 (EST)
My two cents are: Forget about the ballots. These things happen. Bush steals it fair and square, let him have it. The thing was up for grabs and the kid has a sense of entitlement. He worked harder than he's ever worked in his life, and mean people said ugly things about him, so it's only fair that he gets a prize. You don't get the high pie if you don't reach for it, that's what you learn growing up with selfish grabby guys like Neil and Jeb. Jim Baker is a great man, managed to come through a Republican administration without too much shit sticking on him, not even an indictment. Not many can claim that. Casper Weinburger? Don't make me laugh. Baker is the man who gave Saddam Hussein all the guns when he was our Arab, making it possible for Colin Powell and the heroic Schwartzkopf to chase him all the way to his very border when he tried to grab the oil, scaring the shit out of him and making it difficult for him to gas his people in the subsequent civil unrest. Cede the election to a guy who says he took the initiative in creating the internet and who has friends who lied about pussy? A guy whose dad was never even president? Ridiculous.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 06:25:54 (EST)
My two cents are: So I'm watching some talking head interview Jim Baker, who is spoutting off about how we need closure, how there has to be some finality, not endless recounts. Talking head then does something rare in tv land, he asks Baker point blank "What would you consider finality? Would you accept the current recount if Bush lost?" Without batting an eye, Baker's head starts spinning "I didn't say THAT...the whole procees between now and then would have to be fair." Gee, isn't that what Gore has been saying all along?
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:39:10 (EST)
My two cents are: First question is Were the Palm Beach ballots legal to begin with? Doesn't matter that they were published, or that they were vetted by a Democrat or even that they've been used before. Fla. state law says Gore's name must be second on the ballot, it was third. That law also says you must mark to the right of the candidate for whom you are voting, but that was impossible with this ballot.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:32:27 (EST)
My two cents are: Serious dipshit, I'd say.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 04:02:20 (EST)
My two cents are: Ydog signs his serious stuff, dipshit.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 01:46:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Nixon knew he would get exactly nowhere bitching about Cook County, and he lived in a kinder, gentler time, when people called him a crook and a liar only to the extent that he was a crook and a liar. There were standards of propriety in those days. Very few people then were ignorant enough to think that the world is controlled by Mara Liasson's eyebrows, they were still capable of separating fact from television. This is a little treat George and his friends handed to themselves. They pissed in their own soup. A thoroughly disgusting set of shitheads who have earned an opportunity to fail big time. Stealing it fronted by a smug little lawn-jockey like Bush is perfect. The poor little dipshit can't even figure out how to behave in a close election, jumps in with a phony transition process, figuring that if you grab all the blocks you get to be the one that plays with them. The guy couldn't pull off the burglary of the Democratic headquarters in the smallest tank county in Iowa. He couldn't carry Nixon's enemies list.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 01:41:53 (EST)
My two cents are: And aren't we all coffin jockey trainees? Aren't we all a little confused. Don't some of us think "in sink" means something besides the place where dirty dishes go? Don't some of us see "laughing stalks" as we drive across Iowa?
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 01:00:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Helen Halperin, 81, of Lake Worth, Florida, was a senior citizen who mistakenly voted for Buchanan. She said that the hole to punch for Gore was not lined up directly with his name on the voting card, but was closer to Buchanan's name. "I voted for a man I loathe," Halperin said. "I realized after that I voted for the wrong person, but I thought I might be the only one." "Some people are portraying us like idiots, like we're all in early senility," she added. "But the truth is, the ballot was very confusing. I asked for help but the situation wasn't clarified."
just shut up you coffin jockey trainee!
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:53:08 (EST)
My two cents are: Gore'll never be half the man Nixon was. Then again, Nixon was never half the farmer Gore's going to be. Guess Gore will just be like another Dan Quayle, forever in search of a primary election that he can claw his way to get on the ballot for but fail again and again.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:44:06 (EST)
My two cents are: If you don't mind me saying so, Ydog, you've been sour graping around here for the past week. The win-win election situation followed the win-win vote count situation, followed by the win-win 2004 election, ad nauseum.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:39:58 (EST)
My two cents are: Buchanan says they can't take his votes away even if they aren't his. He says Nixon gave up and so should Gore but count the cast away ballots also.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:22:59 (EST)
My two cents are: Yeah, I heard this renegade pubbie, Kevin Phillips maybe, on NPR, saying sometimes it's better to lose to a weakling, like W, let him serve out a term, then come back with a strong candidate and get two terms. He used Carter and Poppy Bush as examples of the weak sisters he was talking about, followed by Reagan and Clinton respectively. If Carter and Big Bush were weak (which they probably were) Shrub sets a new standard.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:19:43 (EST)
My two cents are: Plus, a loss here really solidifies the Democratic base, especially coming so soon after the attempted coup against Clinton. As the razor-sharp analyst Pete noted, the Republicans were already thoroughly fanaticized and couldn't get any more rabid. Bush stealing the election will tune the Democrats up pretty good.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:17:18 (EST)
My two cents are: Hey, Big George couldn't plumb a toilet, he was just a figurehead at the CIA. What happened in Florida, you pack a state with that many old folks and they're bound to bump into one another and stumble around a lot. These things are part of the deal from the start, and Gore should take it that way, after making the W. sweat a little bit. Good training for the boy, anyway. Bush deserves this election. He had to tell many lies and sleep away from home many nights to get it, and now he should be made to serve it out.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:12:58 (EST)
My two cents are: This is a clear case of what goes around comes around. You try to delegitimize your opponents, for example impeaching Clinton based on a hokey entrapment engineered for purely political purposes, or running a campaign consisting of trying to make people think Gore is a liar, and you end up totally ineffectual and widely despised, a startled and indignant little man wandering through history wondering what the fuck happened to you. You make Clinton look so good by comparison that he goes down as the wise and beloved leader who served before the dark days of the Republican putsch. Please, please, please let Little George win this. Give him a chance to speak before the multitudes, explaining how he's going to unite the country.
Anonymous.
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:07:14 (EST)
My two cents are: It truly hilariouses me to view the cospiracy theorists push the idea that Bush tried to steal tihs elcetino. Like, jsut because it all came dwon to hsi brither's state and jsut bceause Bush, Sr. (my fave) is an CIA ex-spookmaster with connections to the plumbres. Anyway, toodles!
Re-Pete�
- Friday, November 10, 2000 at 00:01:49 (EST)

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